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Meet the hosts: Angelica Yarde and Charisma O’Keefe

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Episode Transcription

00:00.78
Angelica:
Hello, friends, and welcome back to the Heart + Hustle Podcast. I am Angelica Yarde.

00:04.94
Charisma:
And I’m Charisma O’Keefe, and we are here every Monday talking to you about entrepreneurship, balance, owning a business, and so many different things. We’ve been recording here for quite some time. You can use the hashtag #BossSoHard to communicate with us online.

00:18.76
Charisma:
Show us what you’re up to because we love seeing what you’re doing with your businesses. We just recently did an episode updating you all with where we’re at with our businesses because, like many entrepreneurs, we’ve done many different things over the years. That would definitely be a great one to listen to if you want to know a little bit more about our expertise and why we have this podcast.

00:31.19
Charisma:
January has been a very long month for many people.

00:45.19
Angelica:
We’re on day 75 of January.

00:45.58
Charisma:
This one.

00:48.36
Angelica:
It’s great.

00:48.46
Charisma:
It’s felt like January for a while. Christmas feels like it was a very long time ago. I know people always struggle with January. I’m a fan of January because my birthday is right in the middle. I feel like God gave me that as a gift because he was like, wow, you are prone to depression.

01:03.37
Charisma:
So I’m going to put your birthday right in the middle of one of the hardest months so that the first two weeks you’re looking forward to it, and then the last two weeks you’re reveling in how awesome it was.

01:15.05
Charisma:
So props to God for that.

01:16.48
Angelica:
Yeah, I always loved January because I got to go back to school. As a kid, I was excited to get out and see my friends.

01:21.15
Charisma:
Yeah. You’ve always been a fan, but I know a lot of people dislike it because of winter. There’s a lot of seasonal depression with the holidays being over. I think that is challenging for a lot of people because sometimes there’s not as much to look forward to.

01:30.98
Angelica:
It is cold outside.

01:38.47
Charisma:
Sometimes there’s a lot of pressure for the year ahead, especially if you’re coming out of a difficult year.

01:50.25
Angelica:
What’s that? What if we didn’t have one of those this year?

01:52.75
Charisma:
It’s normally not great. The news media cycle has been nonstop. I know a lot of people are burning themselves out. We’ve said before, the general consensus is that there’s going to be nonstop BS. We already know that is the case. So you can’t let yourself lose it over every little thing because you will burn out.

02:20.77
Angelica:
There’s been a new thing every hour on the hour, and if you lose your cool over every single one—here’s the thing—they’re supposed to be controversial. They’re supposed to get attention.

02:23.40
Charisma:
Yeah.

02:34.04
Angelica:
They’re supposed to garner a reaction.

02:34.10
Charisma:
They’re coming to drain you out.

02:36.39
Angelica:
That’s what it’s for—to upset you. But you knew about this. I feel like this information was published in a document distributed to everyone last year. It had a title: Project 2025.

02:44.91
Charisma:
Yep, we prepared for it.

02:55.81
Angelica:
It told us what was happening. So if you did not read that document and you’re concerned that something new is happening every day, I suggest you go find it and read it because it literally outlines everything that is happening. I’m not even being facetious about it.

03:06.92
Charisma:
Yes. Honestly, I think that’s the way to go about it—just read it.

03:12.63
Angelica:
Yeah, you already know what’s going to happen.

03:14.78
Charisma:
Yeah.

03:14.90
Angelica:
Yeah, so you can be less surprised.

03:16.84
Charisma:
Allowing yourself to be outraged by every little thing… Then you start focusing on what you can actually do instead of being freaked out 24/7.

03:22.17
Angelica:
Solutions.

03:27.24
Charisma:
Number one is taking care of yourself. If you are not taking care of yourself, how are you going to take care of somebody else? Take care of yourself, rest when you need to rest, eat nutritious food, go for a walk, touch grass.

03:39.84
Angelica:
It’s Lunar New Year—Happy Year of the Snake! Focus on things you can focus on and try to find little moments of positivity for yourself because this is Buckle Up season.

03:41.65
Charisma:
Yes.

03:46.69
Charisma:
Celebrating.

04:00.02
Angelica:
I genuinely feel like one of the things that stopped the previous four years of the administration from being so terrible was the pandemic. If there hadn’t been a pandemic, this would have been happening every single day. Let me paint a picture for you: from 2016 until 2020, every single day, there was nonsense. It was constant, like, “Hey, did you hear this crazy thing?” and we’d be like, “What do you mean?”

04:23.77
Charisma:
Yeah, everything.

04:30.27
Charisma:
And there are ways to take action while still taking care of yourself. For example, I’m starting a tea ritual where I’ll have tea, a good snack, and use that time to call Congress.

04:45.38
Charisma:
Again, it’s not hard to do. You’re making a simple call and leaving a message. It’s not hard to take action in that way. I know there’s been a consensus among Black women where it’s like, we’re going to mind our business, right?

05:01.80 – Charisma:
But some of these things are our business, right? It’s important to pay attention and recognize when action is needed. For example, we need to make sure that kids can eat lunch in schools.

05:12.52 – Charisma:
That’s something that deserves a phone call. It’s not going to disrupt your peace—your peace isn’t going to be perfect anyway—but it’s worth it.

05:19.34 – Angelica:
You don’t even have to call. There are plenty of numbers, apps, and resources available. I did my research and included links where you can simply enter your information, and emails will automatically be sent to the appropriate representatives.

05:23.45 – Charisma:
Yes.

05:29.39
Charisma:
You can send emails, texts—whatever works for you.

05:32.66
Angelica:
It automates the process, so you don’t have to take the physical step. Just enter your information, and it will automatically send everything to your representatives, senators, or whoever needs to receive it. Then you can keep moving forward.

05:48.67
Charisma:
If you’re trying to take a break from the news, take steps to block certain things on your phone or limit how often you check it. You can also communicate with your friends about what information you actually need to know. Maybe you’d prefer to get news from an actual news source rather than social media, which isn’t always the healthiest place to consume it. Setting aside a specific amount of time every few days to check in can be a good approach.

06:18.11
Charisma:
If you have friends or family members who are constantly panicking, it’s okay to say, “Hey, I’m allotting a certain amount of time for this every day for my mental health.”

06:30.50
Charisma:
And then ask if you can change the subject.

06:33.70
Angelica:
Yep, or you can mute them. You can mute their stories, their posts—whatever you need. Alex Elle also had a post that David reshared. I sent it to him because I’m not posting, but she made a great point.

06:50.79
Angelica:
We can’t all be reporters. She talked about how it’s okay if you don’t instantly share every piece of bad news all the time. You are not obligated to do that. That is not your job. That doesn’t mean you don’t care or that you’re not involved. It just means you’re choosing to engage differently.

07:11.54
Angelica:
Most of the time, sharing things immediately isn’t even that helpful. Some people feel the need to do it, and that’s fine—love that for them. But you cannot judge people who choose not to. They may be protecting their peace while still contributing in their own way. There’s no single right way to be part of a movement or work toward change.

07:47.91
Angelica:
We all have to figure out the best way to contribute within our own communities. Every community is different. There are issues happening in Idaho that aren’t happening here. There are things happening in Texas that aren’t happening here. There are things happening in California, in the UK—it’s all different. Not everyone is going to be tuned into your specific situation, and that’s okay. People are also dealing with their own private struggles.

08:17.57
Angelica:
We’ve already experienced a lot of loss in just the first month of the year. People in my circle have been dealing with so much, and that’s where my focus is right now—on those communities.

08:28.55
Angelica:
I can’t personally tend to all the global atrocities being created by billionaires right now. I’m not posting about it, and that’s okay. We just need to give people grace and allow them to engage in ways that make sense for them.

08:40.62
Charisma:
One of the areas where you do have more control is your business, right?

08:45.10
Charisma:
If you’re listening to this, you’re most likely an entrepreneur or hoping to become one in the future. One of the ways you can contribute to positive change is by practicing DEI in your workplace—Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion.

09:02.25
Charisma:
Today, we’re going to talk about how to implement DEI in your own business. This isn’t something corporate America is prioritizing, so it’s important for us to take the lead. We’ll break down what DEI means and how you can actively practice it in your workplace.

09:23.98
Angelica:
Your business. Not anyone else’s—your business.

09:26.85
Charisma:
What you control, what you—

09:28.67
Angelica:
Please stop yelling at Tabitha Brown.

09:31.58
Charisma:
Great.

09:31.71
Angelica:
Oh my God, your business.

09:32.58
Charisma:
Your business. Your own.

09:34.76
Angelica:
Like she said, mind your business. One of the first things you can do—number one, in general, in any type of situation for your business, as you should be doing—is take a step back and assess your current DEIA (Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Accessibility) practices. January is a great time to do this. Q4 last year would have been even better, but make it happen when you can.

Take a look around and evaluate what’s happening in your business. What are you currently doing to support DEIA? Assess your current state—physically and digitally. What programs, services, and benefits are you offering? Now is a great time to start writing all of that down. Go back, review, and see if it meets the requirements of what would be considered good DEI practices.

10:19.82
Angelica:
I understand that for a lot of people, DEI isn’t a new concept. It’s been around for a long time. It didn’t just become relevant in 2020 when the world took notice. It’s been in economic textbooks since I was in high school—and I am old.

10:31.90
Charisma:
Definitely not new.

10:37.71
Angelica:
There’s information everywhere. It’s so important to go back and use the many free resources available. It has never been more accessible to learn what makes a workplace inclusive, equitable, and diverse.

10:53.54
Angelica:
You can now find checklists and resources online to help you go through your processes, programs, and services. Review how you communicate, the tone of voice in your brand messaging, what your business stands for, and even the quality of your brand’s representation. What does your website look like? Your app? Your storefront? Your food truck? Your vehicles? Take time to list everything out, and then work through it one step at a time.

11:28.00
Angelica:
Small chunks—one thing at a time. Go through each aspect of your business and ensure it is accessible to everyone.

11:29.24
Charisma:
Mm-hmm.

11:35.07
Angelica:
It’s about making things available. One of the things we’ve discussed on this podcast for a long time is accessibility, like having transcriptions available.

11:45.67
Angelica:
That is a huge accessibility factor for a podcast. I totally understand that I didn’t have transcriptions before—I didn’t have the time, resources, or money. But with AI, which is both our greatest tool and worst enemy, I can now provide them. So I’ll take the loss on that one if it means making the podcast more accessible.

Not everyone can listen to this podcast, no matter how much we’d love them to. Now, there are written transcriptions available on the website. If you’ve missed something, didn’t understand what we said, or we were talking too fast or too low, you can find everything there.

12:24.72
Angelica:
This was something I personally worked on for the podcast because I knew we weren’t being as inclusive as we could be. That’s on me. But now, it’s part of my workflow, and moving forward, every episode will have a transcription.

That’s just one small example of how businesses can improve accessibility.

12:48.71
Charisma:
Yes! So once you’ve assessed your current state and have a clearer picture of where you stand with DEI, the next step is to develop a strategy.

13:08.80
Charisma:
You need to define measurable goals and outline specific actions. Then, establish timelines and assign responsibilities—just like with any other business initiative.

13:25.88
Charisma:
Even just assessing everything takes time. Building out your DEI strategy won’t happen overnight. If you run a medium or larger business, or if it’s not just you, consider involving your executive team in the process.

13:43.67
Charisma:
You might even want to hire a specialist for this.

13:45.73
Angelica:
I was just going to say—you should probably start by hiring a specialist before trying to tackle it yourself.

13:47.44
Charisma:
There are so many professionals who specialize in DEI. Many of them have unfortunately been let go from corporate roles, but this is their expertise. They’ve studied it, they have experience, and they understand it on a level that most business owners don’t.

14:14.26
Charisma:
Hiring a specialist can make the process much easier and ensure you don’t overlook anything. It helps to avoid gaps in your DEI plan.

14:14.26
Charisma:
So you can hire somebody who will make things much easier. This ensures you’re not missing anything—there are no holes in your plan, right? It’s much easier if you hire someone, if you can. There are professionals available at all levels. If your business is smaller, there are still people you can hire who are more affordable.

A lot of times, people think, Oh, I have a small business with only five or ten employees, so I can’t afford it. But you’d be surprised—please look into it. It’s definitely worth it and makes a massive difference.

15:01.23
Angelica:
Yes, and I want to touch on something because people often assume they have a diverse team and think, Oh, I’ve met my DEI requirements. But that’s not all that is required.

This is why I continue to emphasize accessibility. Many people overlook it. Even in a digital workplace, are your documents available for screen readers?

15:24.60
Angelica:
Can people watch your videos?

15:24.67
Charisma:
Mm-hmm.

15:26.88
Angelica:
Are your captions on? Many people create content for social media and post it without captions. That is my biggest pet peeve.

15:35.03
Charisma:
The majority of people still aren’t using captions, and that is such a pet peeve for me.

15:39.23
Angelica:
It is such a huge pet peeve.

15:41.06
Charisma:
I don’t understand.

15:41.14
Angelica:
Please put captions on your videos.

First, most of your audience—regardless of ability—is watching content at work. I hate to tell you this, but most people are watching content when they shouldn’t be, in spaces they shouldn’t be, and on mute. Most of the time, it’s during their breaks or in meetings when they’re just listening to company updates. They’re browsing the internet, scrolling through Instagram, etc.

16:09.49
Angelica:
Please enable captions on your videos so people can read along.

16:11.03
Charisma:
I literally watch all TV, movies—everything—with captions on.

16:11.45
Angelica:
If you…

16:16.27
Charisma:
It’s really frustrating when a video has no captions. I simply move on because it’s not accessible to me.

16:24.63
Angelica:
This was great—until it wasn’t.

16:25.82
Charisma:
Yeah.

16:26.67
Angelica:
If you operate in an area with diverse communities, consider the accessibility of your documentation. I worked with a nonprofit in Central Florida where the Spanish translations were poor, but at least they existed. However, there was nothing in Haitian Creole or Mandarin.

16:42.52
Angelica:
Is your paperwork—especially legal or registration forms—available in multiple languages? Can people access it easily? How can they get in touch for assistance?

If you have a physical location, do you have accessible parking? Are your bathrooms accessible? Do you have nursing rooms for mothers? Are there changing tables in the men’s restrooms?

17:04.71
Angelica:
These are things people don’t think about when discussing DEI. They focus on whether their board of directors is diverse enough—whether they have the right mix of faces. But it’s not Captain Planet—you don’t just pick one of each.

17:23.71
Angelica:
That’s important, but DEI goes beyond that.

For example, if you have a physical location, do you have wayfinding signage? Is there Braille available so visually impaired individuals can navigate independently? If you operate an art gallery, do you offer audio-guided tours?

These things aren’t necessarily cheap—I understand that—but they make your business more accessible to a broader audience. Once you start catering to multiple communities, people will come.

17:56.03
Angelica:
If your business serves children, do you offer quiet hours for neurodivergent or developmentally disabled children?

18:07.93
Angelica:
If Walmart can have quiet hours, you can too.

18:13.10
Charisma:
Okay.

18:14.61
Angelica:
You can set aside an hour a day. Think about these kinds of resources and accommodations you may not have considered.

This is why I emphasize hiring a consultant. You won’t catch everything on your own, and that’s okay. A consultant will give you a list:

• Red: These are major issues—fix them immediately.
• Yellow: These are areas where you’re not doing great, but improvement isn’t urgent.
• Green: You’re good here, but there’s always room for improvement.

18:52.18
Angelica:
I highly recommend working with a professional because there are too many blind spots—things you wouldn’t think of.

As someone who has done DEI training and is married to someone who has done DEI training at universities, I can tell you it’s not just about hiring a woman and declaring your business DEI-certified. There’s a lot more work involved.

Speaking of hiring, let’s talk about how you hire in your workplace.

19:25.91
Angelica:
If your business is at a point where you’re hiring, you need to implement diverse hiring practices so you don’t create an echo chamber of people who look and think like you.

Highly successful businesses often have employees with a variety of life experiences because they challenge decisions made at the top.

If you’ve ever watched a commercial, visited a store, or seen an ad and thought, How did this get approved?—it’s likely because the decision-makers lacked diverse perspectives.

19:54.64
Angelica:
For example, there was an issue with Spotify Wrapped one year. They used a certain template that unintentionally looked… well, phallic. These kinds of things happen when businesses don’t have diverse voices in the room.

14:14.26
Charisma:
So you can hire somebody who’s going to come in and make things much easier. This ensures you’re not missing anything—there are no holes in your plan, right? It’s going to be a lot easier if you hire someone if you can. There are people to hire at all sorts of levels. If your business is smaller, there are still people you can hire who are not as expensive.

I think a lot of times, people assume, “Oh, I have a small business with only five or ten employees, so we can’t afford it.” But often, you can—you’d be surprised. So please look into it. It’s definitely worth it, and it makes a massive difference.

15:01.23
Angelica:
Yes, and I want to touch on something because people tend to think they have a diverse team and believe they’ve met their DEI requirements. But that’s not all that’s required. This is why I continue to emphasize accessibility—people think about it but don’t always implement it.

If you have a physical workplace, or even a digital one, are your documents available for screen readers?

15:24.60
Angelica:
Can people watch your videos?

15:24.67
Charisma:
Mm-hmm.

15:26.88
Angelica:
Are your captions on? A lot of people create content for social media and post videos without captions. That is my biggest pet peeve.

15:35.03
Charisma:
The majority of people still don’t use captions, and that is such a pet peeve for me.

15:39.23
Angelica:
It really is.

15:41.06
Charisma:
I don’t understand.

15:41.14
Angelica:
Please put captions on your videos. First, because most of your audience—regardless of ability—is watching content at work. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but most people are watching content when they shouldn’t be, in spaces where they shouldn’t be, and they’re watching it on mute. Most of the time, it’s during their breaks or even in the middle of a conference call while listening to company updates. They have time to browse Instagram, the internet, etc.

16:09.49
Angelica:
Please include captions so people can read.

16:11.03
Charisma:
I literally watch all TV shows and movies with captions on.

16:11.45
Angelica:
Exactly.

16:16.27
Charisma:
So it’s really frustrating when someone posts a video without captions. I just think, “Well, that’s not a video for me.”

16:24.63
Angelica:
It was great—until it wasn’t.

16:25.82
Charisma:
Yeah.

16:26.67
Angelica:
If you work with a nonprofit, for example, and they have documentation available, is it translated properly? I worked with one in Central Florida where they had documents in Spanish—but poorly translated. Meanwhile, nothing was available in Haitian Creole or Mandarin.

16:42.52
Angelica:
Are your documents and paperwork, especially legal or registration forms, accessible for translation? Can people access them? How can they get in touch?

If your company has a physical location, do you have accessible parking? Do you have accessible bathrooms?

17:04.71
Angelica:
Do you have nursing rooms for mothers? Do you have changing tables in men’s bathrooms? These are things people don’t think about when considering DEI practices. They focus on board diversity—how many Black, white, or Asian faces are present—but it’s not about checking a box.

17:23.71
Angelica:
It goes beyond that. If your physical location has signage, does it include braille? Can a blind person navigate your space independently? If you have an art gallery, do you provide audio-guided tours?

I’m not saying accessibility features aren’t costly—I get that they affect the bottom line—but they make your business inclusive to more people. And when you cater to multiple communities, people will show up.

17:56.03
Angelica:
If your business caters to children, do you offer quiet hours for neurodivergent kids?

18:07.93
Angelica:
If Walmart can have quiet hours, so can you.

18:13.10
Charisma:
Right.

18:14.61
Angelica:
Think about these resources. Sit down with someone. This is why I emphasize hiring a consultant—you’re not going to catch everything on your own. You’re not going to see every gap. And that’s okay.

A consultant will give you a breakdown:

• Red: Critical issues—fix immediately.
• Yellow: Areas for improvement—not urgent, but beneficial.
• Green: Good to go—room for enhancement but generally fine.

18:52.18
Angelica:
Hiring a DEI expert is crucial. I’ve done DEI training, and my spouse has gotten training from universities. It’s far more than just hiring a woman and calling yourself DEI-certified. There’s real work involved.

Speaking of hiring, let’s discuss how to implement diverse hiring practices. Once you’re at a point where you can expand your team, you need to ensure you’re not hiring in an echo chamber of people who look and think like you.

19:25.91
Angelica:
The most successful businesses have employees from diverse backgrounds. These employees challenge leadership decisions and prevent tone-deaf mistakes. Ever seen a company campaign and thought, “How did that get approved?”

19:54.64
Angelica
For example, during Spotify Wrapped, there was a phallic-shaped design issue. How did that happen?

20:08.30
Angelica
Spotify had laid off its Wrapped design team right before launch.

20:12.22
Charisma
Yep.

20:15.15
Angelica
That’s why it happened.

20:17.38
Angelica
They didn’t have a designer to say, “Hey, that looks inappropriate. Take it out.” Having diverse voices in the room helps you avoid major pitfalls. Otherwise, your business could become a meme—or worse, face legal trouble.

We’ve seen businesses post offensive or tone-deaf signs because there was no one in the room to say, “This isn’t right.”

20:59.06
Angelica
Take Target’s new store-brand packaging. It’s completely inaccessible for colorblind individuals. The contrast is terrible—lemon yellow text on pale lavender blue? It fails every contrast guideline.

Had they hired someone with colorblindness or a specialist in accessibility, they could have avoided this. Something as simple as making packaging legible is critical.

21:53.35
Angelica
To expand your business, review job descriptions for bias. Some job postings clearly favor men—don’t do that. Write job descriptions that attract the best candidate, not just the same type of person over and over.

22:20.86
Angelica
Second, broaden your recruitment channels. If you only post jobs on Indeed or LinkedIn—or, for executives, in exclusive business journals—you’re limiting your talent pool.

22:41.05
Angelica
This is why the same executives rotate through the same Orlando companies—because jobs are only posted in select places.

22:48.44
Charisma
Yep.

22:50.93
Angelica
If you posted those roles in more accessible job boards, you’d attract a more diverse pool of applicants—including people with fresh perspectives.

23:09.54
Charisma
Once you’ve built a diverse team, you must provide DEI training. This should be an ongoing effort because the more we learn, the better we can implement.

Hire a DEI specialist. You may be great at training, but DEI requires expertise. And this isn’t just for entry-level employees or leaders—it’s for everyone.

24:00.84
Charisma
Employees should be educated on microaggressions, which are unfortunately common, especially for Black women in corporate spaces. It’s a constant struggle to balance advocating for yourself while keeping your job.

25:44.05
Charisma
Even if you’re not a white straight male, that doesn’t mean you inherently understand inclusivity. I thought I understood accessibility—until I befriended someone who uses a wheelchair. I quickly realized how inaccessible the world really is.

20:00.76
Charisma:
With he.

20:08.30
Angelica:
And so everybody was like, “Oh, how did that work?” Well, Spotify let go of the Spotify Wrapped team right before Spotify Wrapped came out.

20:12.22
Charisma:
Yep.

20:15.15
Angelica:
So that is why—

20:15.57
Charisma:
You could.

20:17.38
Angelica:
And they had phallic objects because they did not have a designer who had the eye to say, “Hey, that actually is inappropriate. Please take that out.” Having diverse voices and people in the room helps identify possible pitfalls and downfalls, so you don’t become a meme. If it fails, it’s not just about lawsuits—don’t let your business become a joke.

We’ve seen so many cases where signs, company names, or branding choices are clearly inappropriate. That’s often because there wasn’t enough perspective in the room. One of the biggest issues I’ve noticed—because Target and I are not friends right now (y’all know why)—is their new packaging.

20:59.06
Angelica:
Target’s regular branded packaging is highly inaccessible, especially for colorblind individuals. The contrast is terrible. It’s a mix of very pale colors—like lemon yellow with a pale lavender-blue text—which doesn’t meet contrast guidelines anywhere. Not one.

Clearly, nobody told them, “Hey, this isn’t legible.” And it’s affecting a lot of their new packaging. This is why hiring a diverse team matters. Someone with the right experience could say, “Hey, I’m colorblind, I can’t read this,” or “I can’t tell what’s aluminum foil because all the packaging blends together.” Or maybe the text is too small.

These are the things you need to consider when expanding your business—ensuring your team has the capacity to review and prevent these accessibility issues.

21:53.35
Angelica:
One way to improve this is by reviewing job descriptions for bias. I’ve seen descriptions that clearly prefer a male candidate. Don’t do that. Instead, focus on writing descriptions that attract the best person for the job.

22:20.86
Angelica:
The second thing is broadening your recruitment channels to reach a wider talent pool. If you’re only posting on Indeed, LinkedIn, or local business journals like the Orlando Business Journal, you’re limiting yourself.

22:41.05
Angelica:
If you only post jobs in elite circles, you’re going to keep hiring the same types of people. That’s why the same executives keep rotating through Orlando’s companies—the jobs are only posted in one place.

22:48.44
Charisma:
Yep.

22:50.93
Angelica:
If these job listings were more accessible, more people would see them as opportunities. You’d open doors for diverse candidates to enter leadership roles instead of hiring people who look like everyone else in the room.

23:04.13
Angelica:
There are simple ways to create a more diverse hiring pool.

23:09.54
Charisma:
Once you have a diverse team, it’s important to provide DEI training. This should be ongoing because the more we learn, the more we grow. DEI isn’t just a one-time initiative—it’s an evolving process.

Regular training sessions for employees are essential. And honestly, this is where you should hire a professional. You might be great at training in other areas, but if you don’t have a background in DEI, bring in a specialist.

This training should be for everyone—not just entry-level employees, not just leaders—everyone. DEI impacts every aspect of a business, and everyone needs to be informed.

24:00.84
Charisma:
Employees need to understand issues like microaggressions. Because, oh my gosh—were microaggressions born in the workplace? Because it sure feels that way.

I don’t think a single Black woman has made it through corporate America without experiencing them. Even outside corporate spaces, they’re just unavoidable.

24:30.95
Angelica:
Oh, I was going to say, I don’t think Black women can get through life without microaggressions.

24:34.20
Charisma:
That’s true. But in the workplace, it’s even harder to figure out how to speak up for yourself. You need to keep your job while also standing up for yourself—it’s a balancing act.

24:55.26
Charisma:
I know other marginalized groups experience this too. But microaggressions shouldn’t be happening at all. If you want your business to run smoothly, if you want to make money consistently, if you want a workplace where people actually enjoy being, DEI training helps eliminate microaggressions.

25:44.05
Charisma:
And beyond training, fostering inclusive behaviors is crucial. Even if you’re not a white, straight male, that doesn’t automatically mean you understand inclusivity for everyone else.

For example, I have a friend who uses a wheelchair. I thought I was well-versed in accessibility issues, but after spending time with her, I realized how many more challenges exist.

26:20.44
Charisma:
People often use glasses as an analogy. Glasses are an aid that help people see, technically classifying as a disability. But because society decided they’re acceptable, the world is designed to accommodate them. There are no major barriers for people who wear glasses.

But for wheelchair users, it’s a completely different situation. Their needs are often ignored, making daily life unnecessarily difficult.

27:00.06
Charisma:
In Orlando, like many cities, accessibility is a huge issue. Restaurants, museums—so many places remain completely inaccessible. It’s unacceptable.

27:22.53
Charisma:
You need to hire professionals to design proper training programs covering these challenges. Maybe you hold these sessions twice a year, maybe quarterly—whatever suits your business. But it should be ongoing for as long as your business exists.

27:47.71
Angelica:
I can’t even begin to describe how inaccessible some places are when I travel. I don’t want to call them out, but I hope it’s improved—because Little Rock, Arkansas, was one of the worst. It was incredibly inaccessible. If I needed any assistance walking, I wouldn’t have been able to enter restaurants, bookstores, anywhere.

27:56.83
Charisma:
That’s wild.

28:02.41
Charisma:
That’s so wild.

28:17.11
Angelica:
It made no sense to me. It was genuinely ridiculous.

28:20.54
Charisma:
And recently, there have been major issues with Disney’s accessibility policies. They have different systems for people with disabilities, and they’ve apparently been handling it terribly.

28:48.86
Charisma:
That said, Disney and other theme parks do have physical accessibility built into their structures—though now, with Disney’s current failures, it’s hard to tell if they wanted to or had to.

But when you step outside the parks into other areas of Orlando, accessibility plummets. It wouldn’t be hard to install ramps or create accessible pathways, but many businesses do the bare minimum—or nothing at all.

29:28.05
Charisma:
Now, whenever I go out with my friend, I always think about accessibility first.

29:30.26
Angelica:
If it’s on Park Avenue in Winter Park, the answer is no.

29:30.57
Charisma:
Yeah.

29:32.98
Charisma:
Right?

29:34.05
Angelica:
The answer is no.

29:34.11
Charisma:
That’s what’s so wild. John and I love recommending restaurants, but now I have to stop and think, “Wait, is this even accessible?”

29:44.72
Charisma:
It shouldn’t be this way. These are easy fixes. But because able-bodied people aren’t speaking up, change isn’t happening.

If every business owner put just a little more thought into accessibility, the world would be far more inclusive for everyone.

30:07.89
Angelica:
It’s even worse when there is a wheelchair ramp, and the ramp is that long, twisty one. It’s longer to use the wheelchair ramp than it is to use the stairs.

30:14.37
Charisma:
Yes. I know what you’re talking about. It’s horrible.

30:17.77
Angelica:
There are so many places like that here.

30:18.98
Charisma:
Why do they decide that’s the main one? I don’t understand why. And I see that one here all the time.

30:23.33
Angelica:
So annoying.

30:24.90
Charisma:
Yeah.

30:25.57
Angelica:
So annoying. Yeah, I think that’s a bit on The Sex Lives of College Girls, I believe. She’s leaving, and she’s like, “Well, I’ll be there eventually.” And she’s coming down the ramp, saying, “This is what’s happening.” That is genuinely so annoying to me.

So another thing you could do, which is very easy, especially if you own your business and you’re starting to hire, is pay equity. Have good pay equity.

30:36.67
Charisma:
Yeah.

30:54.46
Angelica:
I understand from a financial point of view, but from a human point of view, I struggle with why this is so difficult for so many companies, especially for our industry.

31:05.20
Charisma:
I just want to say there’s a company in Central Florida that hired my friend. She worked there for a long time, doing a lot of really great work, often in not the best, healthiest work circumstances.

31:29.19
Charisma:
They hired somebody for her same position after she had been there for quite a few years. She was still there, and things were going great—projects were going well, and they were happy with her work.

31:39.72
Charisma:
No complaints. They hired a man for her same position, and he didn’t have more experience than her, but they paid him significantly more. He was a white man.

31:48.50
Angelica:
That is the case all the time in a lot of places here.

31:51.89
Charisma:
Yeah. And they did it right in her face.

31:52.29
Angelica:
Um…

31:54.17
Charisma:
And she was like, “What?” She eventually left the company because they clearly had zero respect for her. The wildest part is that, when it’s all said and done, her work was genuinely much better than his.

32:09.44
Charisma:
It’s not even about the same title. I could understand if there was a difference due to cost of living or inflation, but she should have been offered that cost-of-living raise while in the position to match his salary. There’s no excuse for that type of treatment.

32:14.77
Charisma:
It’s still not okay.

32:24.63
Charisma:
Yep.

32:27.09
Charisma:
Yeah. It was just simply that they had two women in the same position. One woman left—not my friend, but the other person in that position—and they hired a man for it. Same role, but they paid him much more. There was no reasoning as to why.

32:56.99
Charisma:
At one point, she called a meeting with them before fully deciding to leave because she wanted to know, “Is there something I’m not doing? Is there something I could be doing better? Am I not bringing something to the table?” She wanted to know because she would like to be paid that much as well.

33:09.06
Angelica:
If you think your employees aren’t talking about their salaries, you’re wrong. I knew how much everyone I worked with made at every job I worked at. I didn’t work in HR—I didn’t even want to work in HR. I didn’t have access to that information. I’m just nosy, and people love sharing how much they make.

33:27.71
Angelica:
There are some old-school people who say, “Oh, I don’t feel comfortable,” and I’m like, “What’s the decision within the range?” I say, “The range of the person who maybe is next to them and the person who’s above them.”

33:38.35
Angelica:
And they’re like, “Yeah, it’s within that range.” And I’m like, “Right.”

33:40.71
Charisma:
Let’s say, yeah, because now people look online, and they can piece together from online and have a general idea.

33:41.19
Angelica:
I’ve always known.

33:49.70
Angelica:
Yeah, even if I— I mean, I’ve dreamed it. Nobody I’ve talked to has ever been like, “I’m not gonna say.” Everyone’s like, “Oh yeah,” because no one cares. It’s 2025—we don’t care.

33:57.90
Charisma:
Yep.

33:58.68
Angelica:
No one cares. Millennials don’t care. We’re not gatekeeping salaries that you give us at jobs that don’t belong to us.

34:04.09
Charisma:
No. Right.

34:06.17
Angelica:
So, as a business owner, just know that if you’re hiring young people, Gen Z’s worse, friends—they’re already talking about salaries immediately after interviews.

34:10.08
Charisma:
Yes, absolutely. If you don’t think Wendy is telling her friends the pay rate before she leaves the interview, you’re mistaken.

34:14.12
Angelica:
It’s like,

34:18.74
Angelica:
So again, if you don’t understand how to structure pay or how that works, you need to work with an HR consultant who can help you understand how pay structures work for different roles. You can find that information for $399 because most companies have ranges available. Lastdoor has ranges available. You know what I mean? There are so many resources you can find. I have many people who share those resources through their clients about how much salaries are in certain positions.

34:44.82
Angelica:
You can get an idea of where your area stands and what ranges you should be paying to ensure fair pay. This is one of the things I’ve come back to in terms of being able to hire. If you cannot hire at a salary level, consider hiring contractors. This way, you don’t offer benefits, but you can pay them well enough so they can also have flexibility and make a living wage. If you can’t do that, offer equity. There are different ways to work within hiring to make sure you’re being equitable.

35:14.76
Angelica:
But to pay people $7.25 and $20.25 an hour, even though that’s the federal minimum wage, is criminal. Honestly, people will work for that because it’s better than nothing. You know what I mean? It’s definitely better than not having any income at all, but I can’t understand, as a business owner, how you would pay someone $7.25 an hour to come to work when eggs are $6.99 a dozen.

35:30.01
Charisma:
I keep forgetting that that’s minimum wage because that’s so bad. That is awful.

35:43.23
Charisma:
Oh, yeah.

35:45.01
Angelica:
What are we doing? I mean, there are just things that you have to really think about in terms of like gas, which is $3.25 to $3.30 to $3.40 to $3.50 depending on where you are per gallon. So now they have to work all day just to afford to drive to work.

36:01.02
Angelica:
These are the reasons why virtual work is so important and remote work is so important.

36:04.91
Charisma:
Yes, like be virtual if you can or offer that as an option. I know it’s not for everyone, but

36:09.17
Angelica:
If you’re not going to pay people good money, don’t make them come into your offices to work if they don’t need to. I’m sorry, but then pay them good money so they can get there. They have to afford the maintenance on their cars.

36:17.39
Charisma:
Yeah.

36:21.37
Angelica:
They have to pay for the gas. They have to pay for the tolls. That’s just to get to work. That’s not including the food they have to eat. If you’re not offering free lunch, guess what? They have to go get food. If you don’t have snacks in your office, they have to buy snacks. Some of you don’t even have water in your buildings, so they have to bring their own water. You have to think about all these things consistently when it comes to hiring. This is why I often tell people, when they feel overwhelmed or feel like they’re ready to hire, not to jump the gun and just get employees for the sake of having employees. Hire contractors first, then build up to the point where you’re able to hire employees. There’s a lot that goes into having employees under you.

36:34.05
Charisma:
I wanted to have a big team.

37:00.93
Angelica:
I wanted to have like 50 people. I don’t want that anymore because I know it’s stressful. The way I would want to do it, I’d have to make a certain amount of money to get there, and I’m just not there yet. So, and I’m obviously like obnoxious, and I would want everyone on my team to make so much money and be very comfortable and very happy, you know? My ideal workspace is that, but I can’t—it’s not realistic in the world we live in. That’s not realistic with inflation and the business I do. So I’ve figured out other ways, and I’ve learned and grown. That’s why I’m sharing this knowledge with you. There are options. If diverse hiring and pay equity aren’t for you, you need to look into hiring contractors.

37:40.86
Charisma:
Your next step is reviewing and updating policies. Just because you have a certain policy in place doesn’t mean it’s the right policy. This is your time to review, update, and make sure that your policies align with how you want to run your business now, with DEI in mind.

38:04.79
Charisma:
Go through and change that playbook. Update it to reflect where you currently are. Then, along with that, the next thing you’re going to do is monitor and track your progress. You may need to adjust your policies depending on what you find.

38:31.30
Charisma:
You want to see: Okay, we’ve implemented all this new stuff, but how is it working? Is it going well? Do we need to bring the DEI trainer back? Are we not transitioning well with what we’re trying to do? And I will say, depending on the makeup of your team, there are times when someone introduces DEI and people might push back. They might be uncomfortable with what they’re learning. They might say, “Well, that doesn’t apply to anybody here, so we don’t care.” You might get some pushback. Be on the lookout for that. But also, you want to monitor and track to see if we’re practicing what we preach and doing it consistently.

39:18.35
Charisma:
This is a broad subject. It’s a lot of different tasks to cover, so it’s not going to happen overnight. It’s something that takes months, if not years, to fully see the reflection and how it impacts your business. Keep track to ensure you’re hitting those goals.

39:40.76
Angelica:
Yes. And the last thing to do is continue to monitor and track progress and see if things are improving or getting worse. What could you do to improve? That’s part of being a business owner in general—consistently figuring out what is working and what’s not, and documenting this information so you can have reports of improvement.

40:04.81
Angelica:
Having trainings available for people as they come in and giving them feedback from those trainings as they’re taking them. Make sure you have a space for your employees to track the feedback they get from the trainings. I’ve seen, listened to, and heard some DEI trainings that are awful, and I’ve seen some that are great. Definitely not all, and some of them have been offered by very large companies to all companies in the world, and I’ve thought, “That’s terrible.” Some have been really good, offered by smaller companies. So take time to make sure that you’re collecting feedback, writing it down, and continuing to monitor things as they come along. I know that there are legal situations in certain places. I know that people are starting to get a little too happy, as I like to say, and are starting to create lawsuits.

41:01.26
Angelica:
They’re attacking companies that have active and vocal DEI practices, with Costco being one of them. I think there’s a lawsuit from a handful of attorneys general regarding their DEI practices for them saying they’ll stand by them. So also understand that I get that it’s stressful to think about, and I empathize. If you’re continuing to choose to implement these practices, just know that you have resources available. There are people working on the ground to help protect businesses, so they can continue to operate at their best. It is stressful, it is scary, and it’s easier to say, “I don’t want a target on my back, so I’ll just comply with what current people are asking for, and then I’ll bring it back in four years.” But sometimes, if you’re choosing to stand your ground, there are resources available to help you keep that going and be consistent.

41:57.04
Angelica:
It is nice, and I feel businesses operate better when they are inclusive, when there are multiple people in the room who are able to give feedback. There is a time and a place for certain spaces, but when it’s forced, it doesn’t feel the best. I’m not saying that you should go through this just to be forced, but you need to be strategic. You don’t need to hire someone of every ethnic background in your company if you can’t afford it, and if it’s not necessary. It’s great, but just hiring people to check a box isn’t helpful. You really have to be smart and make sure you’re doing it in a way that benefits not only you but also the community and your customers.

42:47.17
Charisma:
Yes. So if you are practicing DEI in your business, or if you plan to start paying a little bit more attention to it now, we would love to hear from you. You can email us, DM us, or comment on an Instagram post. We’d love to hear about what sort of things you are doing in your business to make sure you are practicing DEI and being inclusive. Please share that with us. We might share some of them here on the podcast in the coming weeks.

43:16.65
Charisma:
Or on social media or both. Again, it’s always easier when we get hints and help from other people to see what is working in other businesses. This is definitely something we think is incredibly important and will continue to be in the next few years. So, please take the time to consider taking some of these steps for your business.

43:47.51
Angelica:
Yes. As always, leave a review, and we will see you guys next week.

43:52.81
Charisma:
Bye!

43:53.32
Angelica:
Bye.