Welcome to the two-hundred and thirty-eighth episode of the Heart + Hustle Podcast!

As podcasting continues to thrive in 2025, staying ahead requires adaptability and innovation. In this episode, we explore essential strategies to elevate your podcasting game, from defining a niche and incorporating video elements to engaging with your audience and optimizing for searchability. With a more crowded landscape than ever, podcasters must invest in quality equipment, foster listener interaction, and strategically monetize their content to stand out. Additionally, staying informed about emerging trends and remaining flexible ensures long-term success in the evolving podcasting industry. Tune in to discover how you can refine your approach and make a lasting impact in 2025!

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Meet the hosts: Angelica Yarde and Charisma O’Keefe

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Episode Transcription

00:00.67
Angelica: Hello friends, and welcome back to the Heart + Hustle podcast. I’m Angelica Yarde.

00:04.06
Charisma: And I’m Charisma O’Keefe. We are here every week talking to you about entrepreneurship, business balance, and so much more. This week, we are talking about podcasting, which is something we surprisingly don’t do very often, considering we’ve had this podcast for nearly a decade.

00:22.63
Charisma: But we just don’t end up talking about podcasting a lot. When we started out, there really weren’t a lot of people podcasting. It wasn’t a very common thing.

00:34.26
Charisma: Nowadays, you hear that every other person has a podcast—it’s very common. Lots of people have done it. But yeah, it just wasn’t a big thing when we started, so it didn’t naturally become a part of our rotation of topics.

00:46.77
Charisma: We didn’t talk about it often, but we figured we’d dive into it today because we know it’s such a great tool for anyone with a business. If you have a business and you’re trying to expand your personal brand, your business brand, or just let your clients and customers know more about what you do, podcasting is a great—and relatively easy—way to do that.

01:12.66
Charisma: I’ve personally found a lot of success from the podcast because people feel like they know who I am. Since I’m a service-based entrepreneur—I was a photographer for many years, and now I do consulting full-time—

01:29.48
Charisma: People know they’re going to be working with me directly, so my personality matters a lot in my business. They want to know we’ll be a good fit. Many people listen to the podcast, go through a few episodes, and then say, “You know what?

01:42.47
Charisma: Yeah, I feel like I already know Charisma.” I can’t tell you how many people you and I have both met who already know things about us. We sometimes forget just how relaxed we are on the podcast.

01:52.33
Angelica: Still, still.

01:53.32
Charisma: Yeah. We share a lot because we always talk before the podcast as well. We catch up, so we’re already in that vibe by the time we start recording. Then I’ll meet people, and they’ll ask, “Oh, how’s this going?” And I’ll realize, “Oh yeah, I did share that on the podcast.”

02:16.89
Charisma: People feel like they already know you, which can be a huge benefit for marketing your business.

02:38.40
Charisma: Many people are expanding their brands through podcasting. We have an episode where we dive deep into how to start a podcast, what steps to take, and what tools to use. But today, we’re going to focus on what’s current now—what will help you in 2025 to make your podcast the best it can be.

03:01.43
Charisma: If you already have a podcast, this episode will be great for leveling up.

03:05.71
Angelica: Mm-hmm.

03:06.61
Charisma: If you don’t have one yet, I think this episode—along with the one where we go deeper into the actual tools we use to make life easier—will help you.

03:18.56
Charisma: You can listen to both, and they’ll prepare you for launching a podcast. If you have any questions at the end of this episode, like, “I wish they had covered this or that,” please feel free to ask us via email or Instagram.

03:37.52
Charisma: We’d be happy to dive into more specific, niche questions as well.

03:43.06
Angelica: Yes, for sure. One of the first things you should do when creating a podcast—whether you’ve started it already or not—is define your niche and target audience.

04:12.83
Charisma: Yeah.

04:14.69
Angelica: This applies to anything you do on the internet. You need to hone in on who you’re talking to because you can’t talk to everybody. There’s this old-school internet idea that if you just put content out there, you’ll reach the whole world. That’s not how it works anymore.

04:27.88
Angelica: The internet is moving too fast. Every five seconds, there’s something new. Narrowing down your audience and what you’ll be talking about helps with longevity. If you’re discussing something you’re genuinely interested in, you’ll never get bored of podcasting.

04:55.37
Angelica: A lot of people make the mistake of choosing a topic they’re not really passionate about or targeting an audience they’re not familiar with. Then they get frustrated because, as Charisma said, podcasting is oversaturated. There are a million podcasts and YouTubers out there.

05:12.83
Angelica: Everyone is creating content regularly. If you’re not gaining listeners as quickly as you expected, it’s easy to get discouraged. But starting with a well-defined niche and audience helps set you up for success.

05:27.88
Angelica: We knew early on that we wanted to talk to Black women in their mid-20s to early 50s, even mid-50s. That was our niche because that’s who we felt comfortable speaking to. Of course, other people have found us along the way, and that’s great too!

05:27.38
Angelica
But we really were kind of speaking to people we saw ourselves in. We were like, “Hey girl, this is what we would have done to our younger selves, our future selves, or whomever we are when we’re creating this podcast.”

05:31.42
Charisma
Yes.

05:38.13
Angelica
And it has worked out so well because we still enjoy talking to that audience. It’s so natural for us, and that’s why we can still do this eight, nine years later and continue creating content. So definitely take some time to focus on a well-defined topic and tailor your content to that audience instead of just throwing spaghetti at the wall. If you narrow things down early, it becomes easier to stay in the game.

06:02.75
Charisma
Yeah, like you said, with anything anyone is doing or creating these days, you need to have that niche. I used to feel kind of anti-niche because, as a person, I’m into so many different things, right?

06:15.37
Charisma
So I used to feel like, “Oh, I don’t want to have to narrow myself down.” And you don’t necessarily have to, but when you’re putting content out, you have to know: Why am I putting this out? Who am I trying to reach? Because at this point, there’s just so much noise on the internet. There are so many different people out there.

06:30.38
Charisma
And this will help people find you. At the end of the day, that’s why you’re creating this content—because you want people to find you, especially if it’s an extension of your business. Let’s say you work in insurance, and you’re creating a podcast about the best insurance tips or best practices in that industry. Obviously, the same people you’re marketing to for your business are the ones you’re marketing to for your podcast.

06:56.49
Angelica
Mm-hmm.

06:56.60
Charisma
So it’s important to keep that in mind because otherwise, it will be challenging for people to find you. A lot of people might discover a podcast simply by going on Spotify and thinking, “Yeah, I’m in the mood for a podcast.” Then they might search for topics like business, true crime, or something funny.

07:17.61
Charisma
They will use keywords to find something that fits their interests. I do this all the time to discover new podcasts. I’ll search, look at the cover, read a few lines, and think, “Yeah, this feels like the right vibe.” But if a podcast isn’t well-defined and I can’t tell what it’s about, I’m probably not going to invest the time to check out that first episode.

07:45.56
Angelica
Somebody did that.

07:45.59
Charisma
Exactly.

07:46.44
Angelica
There was a list of podcasts titled “Podcasts Black Women Should Listen To,” and it included a bunch of different ones. And I thought they looked interesting—the covers were beautiful.

07:53.09
Charisma
But what were they about?

07:54.50
Angelica
Exactly. What were they about?

07:56.68
Charisma
Yeah. On the low end, we’re investing at least 15 minutes, but for most, it’s going to be 30 minutes to an hour.

07:57.42
Angelica
And…

08:03.11
Charisma
Right. If you’re investing 30 minutes or an hour in something, it’s just like with TV shows. People will say, “Oh, you’ve got to watch this show!” And I’ll be like, “Okay, but what’s it about?” You have to know what it’s about before you’re sold.

08:23.33
Charisma
Someone can tell me about a show a million times, but until they give me the right summary, I’m just not going to watch it.

08:27.25
Angelica
You’re like, “Yeah…”

08:30.33
Charisma
Sure, I’ll watch that. But until you hook me with a good summary, I’m not going to watch it just because you said so. Time is valuable, and we all wish we had a little more of it. Whether I’m listening to a 30-minute podcast on a walk or someone else is listening on their drive to work, they need to know the podcast is worth their time. You have to be clear and direct so they feel like, “Hey, this is for me. I want to listen to this.”

08:57.93
Charisma
Speaking of our niche, we really do focus on Black women—mid-20s to mid-50s. Of course, we’re open to anyone listening.

09:10.77
Charisma
We love that other people listen. And I think we have listeners from places I never expected when we started.

09:17.84
Angelica
Yeah, for a little bit, we were a big deal in Australia, and that was fun. I was like, “Oh, shout out to Australia!”

09:22.60
Charisma
Yeah, that’s so interesting to me.

09:23.75
Angelica
Hey, girls!

09:24.10
Charisma
I always expected us to do well in the United States and the UK because we’ve had a lot of UK guests with big followings.

09:34.23
Charisma
We’ve had UK guests from early on, so I knew we’d do well there. But it’s interesting because only 65% of our listeners are from the U.S.

09:47.33
Charisma
That surprises me because we don’t do anything specific to market to other countries. I think it’s simply because we know our niche. There are universal experiences when it comes to being Black, and that connects us to a global audience.

10:06.85
Charisma: Like, there are things that will be the same or somewhat similar no matter what country you’re in. So when I think about it, I’m like, you know what? It’s actually not that surprising. We’ve gotten very good at saying, “This is our market.” And if that means we leave some people behind, that’s okay because we can’t be everything to everyone.

10:26.61
Charisma: I can’t tell you—I was going through our submission box over the weekend, and I had kind of let it go for a minute. So I really needed to dive in and answer a lot of people.

10:38.08
Charisma: We gave out about 15 no’s to people who wanted to be on the podcast or whose representatives reached out, saying, “Oh, I think this person would be a great fit for you.” And there were a lot of people where I had to say, “You know what? This person sounds wonderful. I looked at their stuff. They’re impressive. They’re awesome. However, I just don’t think they’re a great fit for us.” But if I can, I try to point them in the right direction, like, “Why don’t you send them over to this podcast? I think they’d be a good fit over there.”

11:05.62
Charisma: A lot of times, it’s like—maybe, and it’s not to say that we would never have, for example, an older white man on our podcast, but there needs to be some overlap where I know this person will truly connect with our audience. Because if they don’t, then what makes us different from any other business podcast out there?

11:25.76
Charisma: You know what I mean? Then we’re just regurgitating the same guests and sharing the same information. I would much rather you and I sit down together, dive deep into a topic from our perspective as Black women, and share what we’re going through and our thoughts on it rather than just having a guest for the sake of having a guest when they’re not the right fit.

11:49.53
Charisma: I think a lot of people don’t see the value in that. They think, “Oh, I just have to do interviews.” But not every interview is going to be great, so you don’t actually have to do every interview.

11:58.61
Angelica: Yeah, I was going to say, that’s such a big deal with your PR campaign.

12:00.99
Charisma: Yeah.

12:02.26
Angelica: If you are campaigning for something—if you’ve written a book or have your own podcast—I’ve seen people go on other podcasts as part of their PR and marketing efforts.

12:13.29
Angelica: Don’t just go on the same podcasts in the same niche. If you hit up five business podcasts, the interviews will all start to sound the same at some point because there are only so many questions they can ask.

12:23.12
Charisma: Yep.

12:25.97
Angelica: Especially if half of those podcasters are using ChatGPT to generate questions in the first place, and everyone’s asking the same thing. Nobody’s original anymore!

12:36.64
Charisma: I’ll say, it’s really true. I always want to use ChatGPT, but then I just can’t do it because I want it to be personal, too. I was just writing questions for an illustrator we’re going to have on soon, and I like to actually go through their website and Instagram. I want to ask things that are unique to them because, unfortunately, a lot of people don’t do that these days.

13:00.68
Charisma: Yeah, definitely something to consider. So the second tip we have for you is to incorporate video elements. This is a bit of a “do as we say, not as we do” situation because…

13:15.33
Angelica: Do as she says. Do as Charisma says. Goodbye.

13:21.30
Charisma: I actually would like to do a video element. Angelica said, “We are not doing that.”

13:25.80
Angelica: Girl, I—I saw this Instagram post that featured Black women’s podcasts you should listen to. And one of the women had reached a milestone, and they were all celebrating by doing a dance.

13:36.74
Angelica: And I was like, this is why. This is why I can’t do it.

13:39.98
Charisma: Yeah.

13:40.84
Angelica: I hate it.

13:41.98
Charisma: Yeah, no.

13:42.63
Angelica: Can you imagine us dancing because we hit a certain number of downloads?

13:44.95
Charisma: I’m not saying we should do that, but I think it can be great if you’re recording a podcast.

13:48.33
Angelica: It can be helpful if you’re that type of person.

13:52.87
Charisma: A lot of people record themselves while recording the podcast, so they have a video version.

14:02.00
Angelica: They Oprah Winfrey themselves.

14:02.62
Charisma: Then you have a YouTube channel where you can upload the video. A lot of major brands do this. It gives people the option to listen or watch. One brand that does this really well is Keke Palmer’s podcast, Baby, This is Keke Palmer.

14:20.50
Charisma: When it comes up on your phone, it appears as a video, but you can switch it to audio if you’re walking or out and about. But if you want to watch it, you can. And the thing is, a lot of Gen Z specifically watches podcasts.

14:37.12
Angelica: Which is wild.

14:37.54
Charisma: I actually get it because I do it too.

14:38.34
Angelica: What’s wrong with y’all kids?

14:45.76
Angelica: I refuse. I can’t do it.

14:46.81
Charisma: For my brain, I need something playing in the background while I work, or else I can’t focus.

14:52.48
Angelica: Oh yeah, I do that, but not with a podcast. I love Nicole Byer’s podcast.

14:55.94
Charisma: Yeah, but…

14:57.12
Angelica: She introduced a video component, and I refuse to watch it. Ooh Mess with Sydnee Washington—goodness, I forgot the other host’s name—but they started doing video this year, and their videos look great.

15:14.86
Angelica
I’ve never, never in my mind, opened YouTube to watch someone talk into a microphone and chat with their friends.

15:16.62
Charisma
You know… But listen, stop listening to Angelica for a second because video is still alive and remains a very helpful tool.

15:21.50
Angelica
Crazy.

15:26.62
Angelica
It is helpful for getting your audience out there.

15:28.41
Charisma
Yeah.

15:28.71
Angelica
Girly, YouTube still pays. Those revenue checks are real.

15:29.33
Charisma
Yeah.

15:31.80
Charisma
And you have the benefit of having both. Some people have a great setup, while others simply record in their usual way—with three talking heads on their individual laptops. It’s done both ways. Obviously, certain setups work better for certain brands.

15:55.82
Charisma
I’m a hardcore nerd, so I watch all the breakdowns from New Rockstars. They often just have different people on laptops having a conversation.

16:06.72
Charisma
Whereas for more of a lifestyle or “girly” type of content, you’ll have a cutesy little setup where everything looks aesthetically pleasing.

16:19.84
Charisma
So think about that. If you’re able to do it, it can be a great way to expand your audience. You can build up your YouTube presence, which can be beneficial for a number of reasons.

16:34.25
Charisma
You can also take clips from your podcast that are really great soundbites and turn them into videos.

16:43.98
Angelica
Yeah.

16:44.23
Charisma
You can do this whether or not you incorporate a visual component. You can simply use your logo in the background, or if you do include video, you can cut out a 30-second or 15-second clip where someone said or did something awesome and share it on social media.

17:04.53
Charisma
From one episode, you can have several great soundbites. These clips act as teasers that pull people in, making them think, “Huh, this podcast looks really great. I want to hear more of that conversation—it looks fun, interesting, or informative.” Video can really help with that.

17:42.97
Charisma
Just like video dominates social media in general, it’s the same principle here. Since videos tend to move to the front of the line in social media consumption, incorporating video elements in your podcast will help more people discover it faster.

17:46.71
Angelica
I appreciate you. I’m not reading or watching them, though. Love y’all.

18:00.99
Angelica
Both Meghan Markle and Michelle Obama announced podcasts last week. Michelle Obama’s went live Wednesday.

18:05.30
Charisma
And I will watch.

18:05.32
Angelica
I’m a child of the ’90s. I already did that. I don’t want to do it anymore.

18:08.66
Charisma
I am the person who will watch.

18:09.77
Angelica
And you’re going to watch it. You’re going to watch Michelle and her brother…

18:11.50
Charisma
I’m going to be watching with John. I like seeing the expressions and reactions.

18:13.13
Angelica
Let me know how it goes because I will listen. I hate video podcasts, y’all. It doesn’t add anything for me. I know—I’m the problem.

18:24.81
Charisma
But other people like it.

18:26.76
Angelica
Yeah, I’m like, we watched Oprah. She was the queen of interviewing. Barbara Walters, messy as she was, was also a queen of interviewing. I just don’t want to watch you and your friends talk.

18:37.53
Charisma
You’re telling us it’s a good day. It’s a good day. Oh yes, I know it.

18:43.99
Angelica
And your aesthetically pleasing fake desk or living room. Please stop buying couches with textured fabric—it’s very strange.

19:02.61
Angelica
I have so much beef with people in these fake living rooms, especially now that it’s moved into fitness.

19:10.32
Charisma
Yes, I know it.

19:10.32
Angelica
You know exactly what I’m talking about. It’s so awkward seeing someone lifting a 50-pound dumbbell, doing triceps in front of a white, fuzzy couch.

19:19.72
Charisma
With the fake couch behind them.

19:22.39
Angelica
Get rid of it.

19:37.01
Angelica
So the third thing you should be doing—again, I’m a fan of starting where you need to start. I understand that if you have a message and something you want to say, you might not have all the money to invest upfront.

19:57.71
Angelica
Podcasting was once inaccessible because of the cost. In the early 2000s, there were definitely people podcasting, but they had soundboards, mic systems—it was set up the way you imagine the Howard Stern Show.

19:57.71
Angelica
Which is another reason why I don’t like video podcasts. The Howard Stern Show is genuinely what most people were doing back then—headphones, full setups, everything high-end.

20:05.68
Charisma: That’s a massive setup.

20:06.18
Angelica: And there are still people, still…

20:07.61
Charisma: Yeah, and lots of people still do it. Yeah.

20:10.15
Angelica: Some still do it, but for the most part, a lot of people just use a handful of mics and a production company in the background that handles post-production because a lot of the editing is done after recording. A lot of people don’t have super fancy-dancy equipment. We don’t have super fancy-dancy equipment.

20:24.75
Angelica: I have things that I’ve tried, used—whatever. You guys hear it. If you’re still listening, love you, appreciate you. Love that you love me dealing with the sound editing.

20:33.04
Charisma: Yeah, it’s about investing in quality equipment that you can afford.

20:33.85
Angelica: I appreciate you, but—

20:37.26
Charisma: And it doesn’t need to be as hard as you think. Like, it doesn’t need to cost thousands of dollars per hour.

20:37.35
Angelica: But—

20:40.43
Angelica: No.

20:43.52
Angelica: You don’t need a MacBook to create a podcast. And I think that’s the first thing—if you have a regular Windows PC, you can make a podcast. You don’t have to suddenly go out and buy a $2,000 computer just to start.

20:57.32
Angelica: I will say RAM is important when creating a podcast. If you’re doing the editing in-house, you need memory. That is what you really need, honestly. Out of everything, you need good, well-running equipment. It doesn’t have to be expensive; it just needs to have good performance.

Look for mics within your budget. There are several lists—I will try to find one or put one together from somebody who has compiled options, like:

• A high-end mic

• A low-end mic

• A travel mic

Stop attaching little microphones to business cards and doing weird stuff on the internet while talking to people. If you have to do it, then do it—but get yourself a Rode mic.

21:34.02
Angelica: But you don’t have to buy the greatest thing. You don’t have to buy a very expensive camera. If you’re doing YouTube videos, get a nice, good-quality camera. Of course, your setup for YouTube does need to be a little more expensive because you need good lighting, and all of that needs to happen.

21:50.42
Angelica: But definitely invest in quality. Quality doesn’t always—

21:54.02
Charisma: Unless your brand works with the screen-record setup.

21:55.08
Angelica: Right.

21:57.04
Charisma: It’s brand-specific, though.

21:57.19
Angelica: Right, right.

21:59.29
Charisma: It’s not going to work for every brand.

22:00.94
Angelica: No, no, we have to figure it out. And there’s a lot more software now for recording interviews. When we started, it was just us, our mics—loud. I think we were using Skype. I don’t even think we were using—

22:16.02
Charisma: Yeah.

22:16.16
Angelica: Rest in peace.

22:16.26
Charisma: We used Skype and then Google Meet or whatever.

22:18.34
Angelica: Rest in peace to Skype. Google Meet. All those things.

22:21.89
Charisma: And a lot of times, they were so glitchy back then because there were so few options. I remember it was very common for one platform to just stop working for everyone on a given day.

22:35.02
Charisma: Like, you could talk to plenty of people online, and they’d be like, “Yeah, this one’s not working today.”

22:35.05
Angelica: Right.

22:38.48
Charisma: So everyone would have to switch to another one. It was ridiculous.

22:41.85
Angelica: Real-time. There’s a lot to do. Again, we have links to the stuff we still use in that other Podcasting 101 episode, but I’ll find some other recommendations for the show notes to help you shop around if you don’t have any equipment yet.

22:56.85
Charisma: Yes. And when we started out, I had children’s headphones that were Guardians of the Galaxy-themed.

23:03.41
Angelica: Oh yes, the yellow ones.

23:04.43
Charisma: You remember those?

23:05.55
Angelica: The yellow ones.

23:06.81
Charisma: I don’t know how they fit on my head because I don’t feel like I have a child-sized head. I have a ginormous head, but they fit. And that’s what I used for the longest time because they worked.

So I was like, “This is what I have.” I invested my money in the mic and got a Yeti.

23:20.81
Charisma: And again, it wasn’t a bajillion dollars or anything, but it was top-of-the-line at that time.

23:23.99
Angelica: But at the time, it was still more than—it’s more than 50 bucks.

23:25.34
Charisma: Yeah.

23:28.75
Angelica: You know what I mean?

23:28.80
Charisma: Right. Yeah, it was definitely more than $100. It was the standard mic at the time and still is one of the top mics people use.

23:32.10
Angelica: Right, right.

23:35.45
Angelica: Yep. Mm-hmm.

23:38.35
Charisma: The nice thing about a mic, though, is that it will last forever. I feel like we had fewer headphone options at the time. The only ones available were incredibly expensive.

23:49.48
Charisma: So I could spend $150 on a mic or $300–400 on headphones. I decided to put the money into the mic and just use my kid headphones, and it worked.

So yeah, it’s about getting started where you are and improving your quality as time goes on. At the end of the day, as long as it’s clear and you have a good message, that’s going to be more important than production quality. I hate to say it, but it’s true.

There are plenty of podcasts that, you know, iHeartRadio and all these major platforms promote. But if the connection and the talent aren’t there, sometimes they just don’t last.

24:19.95
Charisma: I mean, these are podcasts led by celebrities, but if they don’t have that connection, then it just doesn’t work.

Which leads us into our next tip—engage with your audience.

24:31.74
Angelica: Yeah. Yes.

24:34.54
Angelica: Yeah.

24:42.86
Charisma: Building a community around your podcast is such an important step. Listen to feedback, be open to it. Don’t be like, “Oh, you can’t tell me anything.” Instead, be open to making it a better experience for your listeners.

Respond to comments if you’re in a place where you get comments.

25:01.22
Charisma: Listening to suggestions for future episodes or guests really improves your content. It makes a massive difference and fosters loyalty with your listeners. They’ll want to come back because they know you’re genuinely trying to create a good experience for them.

25:18.97
Charisma: At the end of the day, that’s what we’re trying to do. We’re trying to serve a particular community and adjacent communities around it. If someone reaches out and says, “Hey, we think this guest would be a great fit,” or “We’d love to know more about this topic,” as long as it aligns with our podcast’s mission, we’re open to it.

25:33.90
Charisma: Why wouldn’t we want to get that direct feedback and act on it?

25:47.53
Charisma: That’s one of the advantages of being a podcast creator compared to other mediums. If you’re making a TV show, it’s much harder to get immediate feedback.

26:00.61
Charisma: And people can be very negative on the internet, so I wouldn’t want to read it if I were…

26:03.52
Angelica: By the time you get feedback, it’s already the next season.

26:06.04
Charisma: I’d be crying. But with podcasting, most of the time, it’s just normal people reaching out. They’ll say, “Oh my God, I loved that episode,” or “I had a question about this,” or “Have you heard about so-and-so? I think they’d be a good fit.” It’s usually just people in the DMs.

26:21.18
Charisma: And they’re usually very lovely, so we’re grateful for that. Having that engagement and back-and-forth helps people want to rate and review you, too. If they feel heard and invested, they’re more likely to leave a five-star review and talk about how great the podcast is.

26:41.97
Angelica: Yes, for sure. And like Charisma said, being open to feedback is important, but so is knowing when not to listen to it.

26:52.19
Angelica: Don’t change your entire show format 100 episodes in just because one person didn’t like it.

26:53.36
Charisma: Yeah, know your message.

26:58.19
Angelica: You have to have thick skin because some people just won’t like your show. We’ve gotten one-star reviews.

27:04.66
Charisma: We got one, but yes.

27:04.85
Angelica: Thanks. I mean, it’s not going to…

27:09.69
Charisma: They were mad about our production. And it was really early on, which was funny. I was like, “Sorry, we don’t sound like we’re funded by Spotify, because guess what? We’re not.”

27:14.55
Angelica: Yeah.

27:25.33
Angelica: And we’d love to be! I’m sure the quality would improve if someone sponsored us. But I listen to professionally produced podcasts all the time, and sometimes the sound quality still isn’t good. It often depends on the setup.

27:55.48
Charisma: Yes! That’s another thing that can be hard to control.

27:58.90
Angelica: You can’t control how your guests act.

28:06.26
Charisma: We tell our guests how to set up—be in a quiet space, use headphones, all that. We let them know in advance and are available for questions. But ultimately, they’re going to do it the way they want.

28:17.77
Charisma: You can’t control their sound quality.

28:20.39
Angelica: The episodes sitting in our drafts… If only people could hear what was happening on the guest’s side!

28:24.37
Charisma: Right.

28:29.46
Charisma: I’m just going to say it—we had an episode years ago that we didn’t release. Hopefully, this person isn’t listening, but if they are, it is what it is.

28:40.97
Charisma: I won’t name names, but they were in a very loud, fully functioning coffee shop.

28:46.33
Angelica: A very popular one.

28:48.33
Charisma: In the middle of the day. People were yelling out orders, the machines were running—it was a full restaurant-coffee situation.

28:54.45
Angelica: It was…

28:56.06
Charisma: People were yelling out orders, the machines were loud. It wasn’t just bad for the recording; we could barely communicate with them. We had to yell over the noise and pause when the coffee machine got too loud.

29:10.85
Angelica: They were grinding the beans!

29:11.74
Charisma: And he kept having to ask, “What? I couldn’t hear the question.”

29:24.38
Charisma: We asked multiple times, “Would you like to stop and reschedule?” And he kept insisting, “No, it’s fine.”

29:43.85
Charisma: But it wasn’t usable. It didn’t serve our audience, and after multiple attempts to adjust, we had to scrap it.

29:43.85
Charisma: You’d think people would know not to do that—especially someone incredibly talented. Maybe they were just early in their business journey and didn’t realize. Who knows?

30:05.79
Charisma:
As a Capricorn, I don’t understand. We just went through this before we started recording. I don’t understand.

30:11.08
Angelica:
It was very funny, for what it’s worth.

30:11.16
Charisma:
But yeah, at the end of the day, it happens. You have to know that you can’t always control the sound quality perfectly unless you have a studio where people are coming in to record.

30:24.12
Charisma:
In those cases, obviously, you’re going to be completely in charge of the exact setup and how the sound quality is.

30:31.39
Angelica:
Oh my goodness. Never a dull moment having a podcast. One of the things you should also be doing—now that you’ve got your podcast set up, all the equipment, and you’re engaging with your audience—is starting your optimization process.

30:46.82
Angelica:
I’m here with you, friends. Search engines are dead. They’re not helpful. The girlies are on TikTok searching for everything. So, to Charisma’s point, put your videos on TikTok because that’s where Gen Z goes to search.

We were at dinner with our friends on Friday, and one of our friends—oh, she’s a baby—was like, “Oh yeah, I look things up on TikTok.” And we were just like, “Girl, the children, the youths.”

Optimize for searchability. Increase your number of podcast episodes. Use the right titles.

31:22.33
Angelica:
Do not use obscure, fun, inside jokes—unless you have that kind of audience.

31:27.07
Charisma:
The lead can be fun, but…

31:29.34
Angelica:
Unless you have a built-in large audience. If you’re not Loudspeakers Network, please don’t do that. I think that killed a lot of podcasts before they even started.

A lot of people tried to take the Loudspeakers Network format and replicate it. Let me tell you—you do not have the power behind whatever crazy magic Loudspeakers Network has put into their podcasts.

31:49.74
Angelica:
If you’re starting out, play by the rules. Get big enough, and then you can change things up. Make sure you’re using proper descriptions. Make sure you’re using the right keywords in your podcast publisher’s metadata. They have keyword functions—use them.

Make sure your website is properly built, that you have the right page tags, and that it’s SEO-optimized. Make sure your Google searchability is set up correctly.

32:14.98
Angelica:
Because it’s so hard. I will say—it’s very difficult to find podcasts using Google because you have to put the word “podcast” behind your search unless you’re looking for someone specific, like a guest.

32:28.27
Angelica:
It’s easy to find our podcast because a lot of our guests’ episodes come up first. It’s usually the oldest piece of content featuring them because we often interview people at the beginning of their careers.

32:38.71
Angelica:
So, a lot of people find our podcast by Googling our guests. That’s why we always put the guest’s name in the episode title.

And I understand that sometimes that means the titles are ridiculously long.

32:49.30
Angelica:
I am the designer.

32:49.71
Charisma:
They are very long, but it’s good.

32:50.42
Angelica:
I have to design the cover art, so I know—it’s too long. You don’t have to tell me. I know. There are too many words in there.

32:59.04
Charisma:
But it always looks good. It doesn’t look too long.

33:00.68
Angelica:
But it works for searchability because people can now find what they’re looking for. I try to optimize by using proper keywords and researching trends.

But optimization is hard work, and it’s a maintenance task.

33:14.68
Angelica:
Every week, you should be doing something.

33:14.74
Charisma:
By the way, guys, I just want you to know that I write the episode descriptions, and I’ll usually come up with pun-based titles.

33:28.43
Charisma:
And then Angelica rewrites them. I’ll be like, “Ooh, what if we call this…” and it’s some clever pun.

33:30.00
Angelica:
And then the title ends up being the most normal, boring thing.

33:30.49
Charisma:
I come up with names that have nothing to do with searchability at all. Every once in a while, one might be searchable enough, but most of the time, Angelica has to rewrite it because she understands keywords and SEO better.

But I am always trying to sneak my puns in there.

33:48.74
Charisma:
So, I get it—if you’re like, “Oh, but I want it to be named this.” I totally understand. But at the end of the day, a funny name won’t get the audience it deserves.

I feel you on the funny names, though—they are great.

34:00.64
Angelica:
Look, the writers in the room are fighting for their lives out here.

34:05.79
Charisma:
Yes! And on The Read, every episode title is a pun. I love that.

34:11.17
Angelica:
Yeah, The Read is like that. The Friend Zone is like that.

34:13.15
Charisma:
But they have an audience where it doesn’t matter.

34:16.15
Angelica:
Yeah.

34:20.17
Charisma:
People are going to search for them regardless.

34:33.51
Charisma:
If I have time to listen to a podcast, the first thing I check is, “Am I caught up on The Read?” That’s always my first priority. Everything else comes after.

34:45.21
Angelica:
They’ve been in the game for 12 years. They were one of the first podcasts targeted toward Black audiences, specifically Black millennials.

34:48.27
Charisma:
Exactly. And they have a massive, loyal audience.

34:48.27
Angelica:
They have 12 years in the game and were one of the first podcasts directed at Black audiences—specifically Black millennials.

34:48.27
Charisma:
Yes! They have a huge listener base, so they don’t need to worry about searchability.

34:48.27
Angelica:
But for everyone else, you need to think strategically.

34:48.27
Charisma:
If you title your episode with just a pun and nothing about the topic—like podcasting tips—it won’t help people find it.

35:12.32
Charisma: Yeah.

35:13.05
Angelica: Unfortunately.

35:14.06
Charisma: Unfortunately. So the next thing we would suggest is to monetize strategically. There are many different ways to monetize your podcast. Of course, sponsorships are one of the most popular methods. With sponsorships, you can have companies sponsor the beginning, middle, or end of the episode.

35:35.91
Charisma: I think it makes strategic sense to align with brands that make sense for your audience. If you have a business podcast and you’re talking about accounting software, that’s a great fit. But if you’re a business podcast talking about vibrators, I don’t know if that makes sense—though maybe it does.

36:00.92
Charisma: Maybe you know your audience.

36:01.78
Angelica: They go hand in hand.

36:03.47
Charisma: Maybe you sometimes talk about that. I was going to say wine, and I thought, “We would definitely do a sponsorship for wine.” It worked for us because it aligned with our brand. You go out, talk to clients, have a tough week at work, come home, and have wine. That made sense for us. Plus, Angelica understands wine.

36:25.67
Charisma: She really understands wine.

36:29.01
Angelica: Yep.

36:31.17
Charisma: And I said that in the ad—I just thought it was delicious. But Angelica knows how to order wine like a full-fledged adult, so it made sense for us to share that sponsorship.

36:46.49
Charisma: We actually used the product. We’ve had other sponsorships that weren’t necessarily business-specific, like partnerships with health brands, which made sense because we actually used those products. Yes, we’ll drink this matcha shot because we need some matcha. Yes, we’ll have these bars because having a healthy snack on the go is necessary—especially for me, since I once passed out while shooting a wedding because I didn’t eat or drink all day.

37:07.26
Charisma: So when we say, “I keep this in my purse,” we mean it. The key is ensuring that sponsorships align with your brand and who you are as a person or business.

37:28.09
Charisma: Just make sure everything is in alignment when it comes to sponsorships. If not, it just comes off as very…

37:34.69
Angelica: Disingenuous.

37:35.33
Charisma: Yeah, it just doesn’t make sense.

37:35.42
Angelica: It’s like, what are we doing?

37:38.73
Charisma: I like everything, so I’m trying to think of something I don’t like that would be a bad fit… oh, olives!

37:44.28
Angelica: You said olives, and I was going to say Teslas, but go off.

37:48.63
Charisma: Yes, that makes way more sense. I don’t know why my brain went to olives instead of Teslas. But if you ever hear me saying, “These olives are the best! Here’s your discount code,” you’ll know I’m lying because I do not like olives. I think olives are gross.

38:03.17
Charisma: I do try them every so often. I tried some on Friday at the buffet.

38:09.67
Angelica: She’s been trying new foods, and it’s hilarious. That should be a series. I would make a video out of it.

38:14.02
Charisma: I’ve tried all kinds of olives. At buffets, I take advantage of the opportunity to try things, and I keep trying them, thinking maybe I’ll like them someday.

38:29.04
Charisma: But I just continually hate them. So if I had a sponsorship for olives and raved about how amazing they were, anyone who knows me would immediately know I’m lying.

38:35.91
Angelica: She lied.

38:38.29
Charisma: And that would catch up to me. People know me locally. Someone would tell someone else, “That girl hates olives,” and it would spread.

38:45.21
Angelica: Could you imagine? The rumor mill would start running in the cyber streets.

38:49.82
Charisma: Yes! And if you and I were in a Cybertruck telling people to buy a Cybertruck, you’d know we sold out.

38:54.71
Angelica: We’re getting paid. We sold out. Someone check on us.

38:59.11
Charisma: I don’t think I could do it. But at the same time, if they offered me $10 million, I might get in the Cybertruck.

39:01.82
Angelica: No, we couldn’t do it. It would have to be Buku money.

39:10.15
Angelica: I would say $100 million. You said $10 million—I don’t know if I could do it for that. But $100 million? Now, hold on.

39:15.45
Charisma: I think I could because I don’t think I have enough influence for people to take me seriously. They would just know, “Oh, she’s getting paid $10 million for this.”

39:23.55
Angelica: Yeah. Y’all, hit me up for money if you see me in a Cybertruck ad. I’ve got it.

39:24.92
Charisma: She doesn’t even have to be a supervisor.

39:28.99
Charisma: Yeah.

39:29.51
Angelica: I got it. I got it.

39:30.51
Charisma: And to justify it to myself, I’d have to give some of it away.

39:30.61
Angelica: Exactly.

39:34.32
Angelica: I’m giving that money away.

39:35.67
Charisma: I’d have to because otherwise, I’d feel like a bad person.

39:39.34
Angelica: Oh my gosh, what a mess.

39:39.42
Charisma: Maybe we just shouldn’t do it. Maybe there’s no amount of money that would make it okay.

39:45.30
Angelica: We shouldn’t.

39:45.58
Charisma: No, it’s just—it’s fascism. We just need to not.

39:48.65
Angelica: We won’t. No, thank you.

39:49.70
Charisma: I’m acting like we’re actually getting an offer. But no, no, no, Elon—thanks, but we’re good.

39:56.63
Angelica: No, thank you.

39:56.81
Charisma: So yeah, focus on sponsorships that align with you. The same goes for merchandise. Most podcasts can do well with merch—everyone loves a tote bag or a cute dad hat. Notebooks are great too.

35:12.32
Charisma: Yeah.

35:13.05
Angelica: Unfortunately.

35:14.06
Charisma: Unfortunately. So the next thing that we would say to do would be to monetize strategically. There are a lot of different ways to monetize your podcast. Of course, there are sponsorships, which have been one of the more popular ways. With sponsorships, you can have people sponsor the top of the episode, the middle of the episode, or the end of the episode.

35:35.91
Charisma: I think it makes sense to align with brands that make sense for your audience. For example, if you are a business podcast and you’re talking about accounting software, that’s wonderful. If you’re a business podcast and you’re talking about, I don’t know, vibrators—it might not go hand in hand. But maybe it does.

36:00.92
Charisma: Maybe you know your audience. Maybe sometimes you…

36:01.78
Angelica: They go hand in hand.

36:03.47
Charisma: Maybe sometimes you talk about that stuff. I was going to say wine, and I was like, we would definitely do a sponsorship for wine. For us, it made sense because we were like, okay, you go out, you talk to clients, you have a bad week at work, you come home and have wine. It fit our brand. And Angelica is one of those people who really understands wine.

36:25.67
Charisma: She understands wine. You know what I mean? I’ll be honest—I’m not.

36:29.01
Angelica: Yep.

36:31.17
Charisma: And I said that in the ad. I was just like, “It is delicious,” but Angelica truly understands wine.

36:34.74
Angelica: Okay.

36:36.17
Charisma: She can order properly, like a full-on fancy adult. So it made sense for us to have that sponsorship.

36:46.49
Charisma: We actually used the product. We’ve had other partnerships that weren’t necessarily business-specific, like certain health brands—health foods and things like that. Again, they were things we actually used. Like, yes, we will drink this matcha shot because we need some matcha. Yes, we will have these bars because having a healthy snack on the go is important—especially for me, who has passed out while shooting a wedding because I did not eat or drink all day.

37:10.80
Angelica: Carl.

37:11.71
Charisma: We’re not lying when we say, “No, I have this in my purse.” So technically, it can be anything, but it should be true to your brand and who you are as a person, a business, etc.

37:28.09
Charisma: Just make sure things are in alignment when it comes to sponsorships. If not, it comes off as very…

37:34.69
Angelica: Disingenuous.

37:35.33
Charisma: Yeah, it just doesn’t seem to make sense.

37:35.42
Angelica: Like, what are we doing?

37:38.73
Charisma: I’m trying to think of something that I don’t like… Oh, olives. If you ever hear me talking about—

37:44.28
Angelica: I was going to say Teslas, but go off.

37:48.63
Charisma: Yes, that makes way more sense. I don’t know why my brain went to olives instead of Teslas. But if you heard me saying, “These olives are the best! Here’s your discount code,” you’d know I was lying because I do not like olives. I think olives are gross.

38:03.17
Charisma: I do try them every so often. I tried some on Friday when we were at the buffet. Every time I get a chance, I try because—

38:09.67
Angelica: She’s been trying new foods, and it’s very funny. That should be a series. I would do that on video.

38:14.02
Charisma: I’ve tried all of them. Whenever I go to a buffet, I try everything. I just kept trying things, and I was like, “I do not like this.” But I’ll still try. So I keep trying new olives because so many people love olives, and I’m like, “What am I missing?”

38:29.04
Charisma: And I just continually hate them. So if I had a sponsorship for olives and I was raving about them, anyone who knows me would know I was lying.

38:35.91
Angelica: She lied.

38:38.29
Charisma: And that would catch up to me. People know me locally. Somebody’s going to tell somebody else, “That girl hates olives,” and it’s just going to spread.

38:45.21
Charisma: Could you imagine? We’d be in the Cybertruck—

38:49.82
Charisma: Yes! If you and I were in a Cybertruck telling people to buy a Cybertruck, you already know we sold out.

38:54.71
Angelica: We are getting paid. We sold out. Call us out.

39:01.82
Charisma: I don’t think I could do it. But at the same time… if they came to me with $10 million, I think I’d get in the Cybertruck.

39:03.55
Angelica: No, we couldn’t do it—unless it was Buku money.

39:10.15
Angelica: I would say $100 million. You said $10 million—I don’t know if I could do it for $10 million, but $100 million?

39:15.45
Charisma: I think I could, only because I don’t think I have enough influence for anyone to take me seriously. People would just know, “Oh, she’s getting paid $10 million for this.”

39:23.55
Angelica: Yeah. If you see me in a Cybertruck ad, hit me up for money, because I’ve got it.

39:24.92
Charisma: She doesn’t have to be a supervisor.

39:28.99
Charisma: Yeah.

39:29.51
Angelica: I got it. I got it.

39:30.51
Charisma: And that would be part of my justification.

39:30.61
Angelica: And I will share.

39:34.32
Angelica: Exactly.

39:34.43
Charisma: I would give away a lot of it because I would feel guilty.

39:39.34
Angelica: Oh my gosh, what a mess.

39:39.42
Charisma: So yeah, maybe we just shouldn’t do it. There should be no amount of money that makes us do it.

39:45.30
Angelica: We shouldn’t.

39:45.58
Charisma: No. It’s fascism. We just need to not.

39:48.65
Angelica: We won’t. No, thank you.

39:49.70
Charisma: I’m acting like we’re getting an offer. But no, no, no. Elon, thanks—we’re good.

39:56.63
Angelica: No, thank you.

40:09.98
Charisma: Again, hopefully, they’re taking notes while they’re listening to your content. We tell y’all to take notes a lot. We should add a notebook to our merchandise.

40:18.57
Angelica: We are.

45:08.99
Charisma: And just kind of being ready for what’s next and being willing to change because you should be constantly evolving in every element of your life. Who wants to just sit still and keep doing the same old thing?

45:22.21
Angelica: Exactly. So thank you so much for listening. We are so excited to be able to share this information with you guys, and we will continue to evolve. As more information becomes available, we will definitely share it in a future episode.

45:37.13
Angelica: If you have more tips and tricks for us or if you have a podcast of your own you want us to listen to, please send it to us.

45:41.42
Charisma: We would love to know. I really do need new podcasts.

45:43.47
Angelica: We want to listen. I need new podcasts too.

45:46.17
Charisma: I have about three that are in my main rotation, and that’s pretty much what I’ve been listening to lately. I’ve been walking more and more, so I love to listen while I walk. Please send them my way. Like I said, I have to have sound at all times, so I’m always open to new suggestions. I love to listen. And then, on top of that, please rate and review, and follow us on Instagram. We’re sharing more there again.

46:09.74
Charisma: If you have any clients or guests that you think would be a good fit, send them our way. We are still taking guests for summer. We’re scheduling those now, so please send people that you think would be relevant to our podcast.

46:27.19
Angelica: Awesome. Thank you so much, guys. Thanks.

46:29.12
Charisma: Bye.