Welcome to the two-hundred and forty-second episode of the Heart + Hustle Podcast!

Today, we’re chatting with social media strategist and Mindful Marketing Podcast host Andréa Jones about creating a mindful social media strategy. With over a decade of experience, Andréa shares how success metrics have shifted over the years, what to watch for when your strategy starts to stall, and how to tailor your approach across different platforms. We also discuss the long-term value of evergreen content like YouTube, the tools she recommends for tracking performance, and what entrepreneurs should start paying attention to now to stay ahead of future trends.

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Meet the hosts: Angelica Yarde and Charisma O’Keefe

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Episode Transcription

00:00.94
Angelica
Hello friends, welcome back to the Heart and Hustle podcast. We are so excited today to bring another guest. We have Andrea Jones with us, who has been on the podcast before, back when we were young and less mom-brained and having all the things happening.

00:15.89
Angelica
Andrea’s blown up on social media. She’s grown her social media over the past few years—I’ve been watching, it’s insane. And she is going to share some tips and tricks with you all today. So we’re very excited to have her here.

00:28.45
Angelica
So Andrea, with over a decade in the social media landscape, how have you seen the indicators of a successful strategy evolve? And what key metrics should entrepreneurs focus on today?

00:39.38
Angelica
Andrea?

00:39.91
Andréa Jones
Yes. Well, first of all, thank you for having me back on the show. I love being here.

00:44.24
Charisma
Yes.

00:44.87
Andréa Jones
And it’s so funny that we’re starting with this question because I feel like an internet granny sometimes.

00:49.96
Angelica
Same.

00:50.16
Charisma
Yes.

00:50.26
Angelica
We just said that. I just said I am 90 years old in internet years.

00:51.45
Charisma
We’re just so good. Yes.

00:54.91
Angelica
Mm-hmm.

00:55.14
Andréa Jones
I’ve seen so much of it.

00:55.16
Angelica
Same.

00:57.71
Andréa Jones
I started my first blog in 2004. I was a YouTuber in 2007—this was before it was a thing. People were like, “What are you doing? That’s weird.” So I’ve seen the evolution.

01:07.80
Andréa Jones
I started my business in 2014, so I’ve seen the evolution of all of the things. Back then, when I started my business especially, it was a lot simpler. We could take the same square graphic we made in PicMonkey…

01:18.04
Angelica
A…

01:22.08
Andréa Jones
…and we could post it to Facebook.

01:22.20
Angelica
Right.

01:23.68
Andréa Jones
We could post it to Twitter. No brands were on Instagram at that time. Instagram was like Valencia filters and breakfast.

01:31.39
Angelica
Right, Martin.

01:33.47
Andréa Jones
So we’ve changed from that to now—even take Instagram for example—we have a feed post, a carousel post, an Instagram Reel, a Story, Notes, DMs, broadcast channels. It’s a lot. It’s way more complex. When I think about measures of success then versus now, now…

01:54.57
Andréa Jones
…it’s a lot about building an atmosphere where your community feels comfortable to connect with you, which is a much more elegant way of approaching marketing. Whereas back then it was more like a billboard—let’s shout out what we’re selling as loud as possible.

02:10.69
Andréa Jones
Today, it’s more about niche communities, smaller groups, finding your people, and building on the collective experience. So yes, it takes a more nuanced approach, but I find it a lot more fun to be on the internet these days—for the most part.

02:25.96
Andréa Jones
And I’m excited about it, but I do want to say that it is more complicated now.

02:26.31
Angelica
Hehe.

02:32.25
Angelica
Yeah, it feels more complicated for sure. And like you said, I just shot and put together a group of girls I met on LiveJournal 20 years ago. We reopened our group chat because I just got the email from LiveJournal that it’s been 20 years. I was like, “Hey friends, we’re old.”

02:49.58
Angelica
That’s where I started posting graphics. I had an avatar shop on LiveJournal. I would create avatars for different content.

02:55.54
Charisma
Oh yes, thank you.

02:58.29
Angelica
It was so easy to just host everything on Photobucket, upload it, share it in a few groups, and get an audience. I moved that audience to my first design blog—that’s where I put my design resources. I’d say, “If you want more, come to my website.” That was social media. That was me utilizing another platform to build my own. Now, the algorithm tells you what to do, when to do it, and how to do it.

03:21.88
Angelica
Now we have all these different types of formats and video is king. We couldn’t even use video on dial-up. We were just getting high-speed internet.

03:28.59
Charisma
I am.

03:28.98
Andréa Jones
Mm-hmm.

03:32.50
Angelica
Now we’re watching 4K videos on our phones. What a huge difference in how technology has grown in 20 years.

03:43.51
Andréa Jones
Yeah. The interesting thing is, back then we looked at way simpler metrics for success. Things like website traffic, sales, and maybe clicks.

03:51.32
Angelica
Yeah.

03:55.65
Andréa Jones
Now, it feels more intangible because it’s harder to draw a straight line. You talked about how you took your audience from Photobucket over to your website…

04:05.88
Andréa Jones
Whereas now, someone may see something on the modern equivalent of Photobucket—or DeviantArt? Does that still exist?

04:06.32
Charisma
What?

04:06.33
Angelica
Yeah.

04:06.68
Andréa Jones
Now, people bounce around. They may see an email, an Instagram DM, and then visit your website. You can’t even track how they initially saw you because of how complex our community connections are.

04:21.33
Andréa Jones
The kids will tell us what’s up.

04:22.61
Angelica
I don’t know what it is.

04:24.04
Andréa Jones
Now, it’s about building that community experience versus focusing too much on clicks, impressions, and website traffic.

04:50.86
Angelica
Yeah, I do think there’s an element of storytelling that you have to present when you’re talking about those metrics—what happened to get to X. It’s not just, “Okay, I had 100,000 visitors on my website.”

05:03.27
Angelica
What did you do to do XYZ? The case study of it all is so imperative to include in those success stories because, you know, numbers just don’t mean as much as they used to. You can have 20 million followers, but you’re only seeing 1% of them organically on every platform.

05:18.41
Charisma
Mm-hmm.

05:19.17
Angelica
So what does that mean? And what does that look like? And how do you, like you said, define that success for yourself?

05:25.62
Andréa Jones
Yeah. And this isn’t new. When you study traditional marketing, this is exactly how they would measure success as well. In the days of radio ads and billboards, they couldn’t tell you exactly which billboard someone saw at any given time. They had to survey people. They had to go out and talk to the community and be like, “Well, how many times did you listen to our radio ad?” You know what I mean? So this isn’t…

05:48.28
Andréa Jones
…unfamiliar to us, but I think we’re a little bit spoiled with the olden days, pre-privacy internet, where the data was freely flowing.

05:54.10
Charisma
Oh, yeah.

05:54.15
Angelica
Thank you.

05:56.02
Charisma
Yeah.

05:57.90
Andréa Jones
And now we have data privacy laws in place to protect people. And that’s not a bad thing. We just have to be more thoughtful about it as marketers and as business owners.

06:08.73
Charisma
Yeah. And I feel like here in the States, we’re the last to get those laws. Other countries have been kind of working with that for a while. But for us, like with many things, we’re the last to join that table.

06:21.83
Andréa Jones
Mm-hmm.

06:23.79
Charisma
So it’s kind of something that I think some creators and whatnot are struggling with here. But yes, the internet has changed. It’s changed massively. Hearing you guys say the names of some of those websites—wow, the nostalgia hit me right in the feels.

06:37.30
Charisma
Those are websites I used to go to daily. Especially PhotoBucket—that was like…

06:37.78
Andréa Jones
Mm-hmm.

06:43.12
Charisma
I was just thinking, I was like, “Man, does my PhotoBucket still exist? Is it just out there living its life day to day?”

06:47.55
Angelica
They will email you to extort you. So they emailed me the other day like, “Can you…?” Because it’s only paid now. It’s a paid service—no more free hosting.

06:53.81
Charisma
Yeah.

06:54.69
Angelica
And so they’re like, “If you pay to do that…” And then I logged in, and they’re like, “By the way, we deleted all that five years ago. Remember when we deleted it?”

07:00.40
Charisma
Oh.

07:00.65
Angelica
“Kid, you want to pay us?”

07:01.31
Charisma
Oh, man.

07:01.30
Angelica
And I was like, “What a bucket.”

07:02.29
Andréa Jones
Oh no.

07:03.09
Angelica
Get out of my—out. Blocked. Blocked. Blocked on email.

07:05.66
Charisma
Oh man.

07:05.98
Angelica
Go away.

07:06.95
Charisma
Yeah. Dropbox is the one that’s always emailing me. They’re like, “Do you want to have more storage?”

07:11.87
Angelica
They’re like, “Come back!”

07:12.91
Charisma
And I’m like, “I don’t use you.”

07:13.03
Angelica
“Come back!”

07:14.35
Charisma
So no, I don’t really think more storage is necessary, but thanks.

07:19.06
Angelica
Yeah.

07:20.90
Charisma
It was such a nostalgic time. It’s funny because I think we see a lot of posts about things like Nintendo 64 or whatever sort of thing we were using back in the ’90s or early aughts. But to me, also websites were very nostalgic. And I think that might be a little more niche, because we are three people who were very much on the internet. Kind of like you were saying—before other people were doing it. Like you had a YouTube channel and people were like, “Why are you making a video of yourself and putting it on the internet?”

07:49.98
Andréa Jones
Right?

07:50.20
Charisma
Back then, it was just so uncommon. But we very much grew up on the internet. So yeah, those websites feel so nostalgic for me. I do kind of miss it a little bit. Good times.

08:01.89
Charisma
I loved it. I miss it. So, you have a podcast now too, which is fantastic. I’m such a huge fan of anyone having a podcast because I think it’s such a great way to grow your brand and let people really get to know you in a way that sometimes you can’t with other types of traditional marketing.

08:18.35
Charisma
Your podcast is called The Mindful Marketing Podcast. You discuss all sorts of amazing topics over there, but you’ve also discussed overcoming social media slumps. Again, we’ve been talking about just how much social media has changed—from where we used to be able to take one image, throw it everywhere, and now it’s a completely different situation.

08:36.29
Charisma
So what advice do you have for entrepreneurs to recognize and address signs that their current strategy might be faltering?

08:42.79
Andréa Jones
Yeah. I think part of this is due to the complexity of it all, right? We look at our favorite brands, we look at our favorite creators, and we think, “I should do that too.” And then we just start doing it. We don’t think about why we’re doing it. We don’t analyze if it actually fits into our time budget.

08:58.94
Andréa Jones
And so we end up adding on, adding on, adding on more stuff. And then one day we wake up, look at Instagram on our phone, and feel like, “I want to delete this from my phone and never look at this again.” And I think that feeling is very valid. It’s a sign of being overwhelmed by it all.

09:15.91
Andréa Jones
Other signs are a lack of creativity, feeling jealousy as you’re scrolling through your feed, or you create a video and don’t post it because you feel like you’re not good enough. All of those feelings lead to social media slumps.

09:32.08
Andréa Jones
For a lot of my clients and customers, that looks like not posting on social media at all. And that’s unintentional. So where I start a lot of times with this conversation is: how do you want to feel about social media? Especially for those of us who are our businesses.

09:49.30
Andréa Jones
Right now, my business is me and one assistant who works very part time. So I am the business. I wear all of the hats. And for a lot of people I work with, they also wear all of the hats. On top of that, we’ve got kids, we’ve got aging parents, maybe we’re going back to school, maybe we have a full-time job—there’s a lot happening. And we can’t compare ourselves to the creator who has a full-time social media manager on staff.

10:12.64
Andréa Jones
And so it’s just, first of all, acknowledging what feelings you want to have about social media — you as a content creator and the business owner. How do you want to show up on that platform?

10:24.64
Andréa Jones
And then also recognizing that going through seasons is okay. And this is something I’ve been talking about a lot in my marketing because, you know, the marketers of the internet — a lot of them, I’m going to be honest — are white men whose wives take care of their kids.

10:42.15
Andréa Jones
They’re out there saying, “Post five times a day,” right?

10:43.62
Angelica
For real.

10:46.56
Andréa Jones
And it’s like, okay — like I could, if I also had a wife that was taking care of my kids, right?

10:50.49
Angelica
Right. Right.

10:53.06
Andréa Jones
So that advice doesn’t work for everybody. And so a lot of the work that I do with my clients is: we’re going to set up the ideal schedule, and then we’re going to set up the fallback schedule. So the ideal schedule may be — and I don’t like to use five posts as a metric.

11:09.06
Andréa Jones
Usually we use time-based inputs because a reel takes a totally different amount of time than posting just a photo with a caption.

11:17.00
Angelica
Mm-hmm.

11:17.20
Andréa Jones
Okay, so we’re not going to say five posts. We’re going to give ourselves a time budget. For a lot of people I work with, it’s an hour a week. So one hour a week, we’re going to sit down, we’re going to work on our content. And then we’re going to take 15 minutes a day to network and grow our communities. Okay — you get to decide what that frequency is based on your life and what you can commit to.

11:35.14
Andréa Jones
Some weeks, you may just get one reel. Some weeks, you may get more than that. And that’s the ideal. But then we have the real world, which is where I am right now. I have a one-year-old and a three-year-old.

11:45.88
Andréa Jones
And my one-year-old has no daycare. So meetings like this — they’re during nap times. Okay, so I have a very limited amount of time. And so my current capacity is the podcast and repurposing the podcast to social media.

12:01.58
Andréa Jones
Anything else is bonus, and I pat myself on the back like, “Yeah, I did extra.” But I do the bare minimum, and that’s what I do in my fallback plan. And so I think emotionally — because we’re very emotional creatures —

12:13.77
Andréa Jones
Once we decide on that, we don’t feel like we’re failing when we’re in a social media slump.

12:17.50
Angelica
Mm-hmm.

12:18.92
Andréa Jones
It feels intentional. It’s like, you know what? I’m just here on my fallback plan. I planned for this. I’m taking this — it’s like when you save money and then you have to dip into your savings because your car battery broke, right? That’s what the savings is for.

12:32.04
Andréa Jones
And so for a lot of my clients, it’s like we’re building up the equity in our content plans so that when life happens, we can dip into that savings. Maybe it’s repurposing content, maybe it’s pausing content — whatever that looks like for you — slowing it down.

12:46.59
Andréa Jones
But having that plan will help you not feel bad about a social media slump. And then just accept that this is a season of life. And then when things pick back up again, I’ll go back to my main plan.

12:55.62
Angelica
Yeah, I think that’s so smart, and it makes sense to look at it that way. One, because we’ve been talking more and more about consistency, and I think it just allows you to be consistent realistically within what your life is giving you. Like you said, most of us are millennials — elder, younger millennials — and in that age bracket, a lot of us do have kids or we have aging parents. And sometimes we have all of those things.

13:19.28
Angelica
So, you know, your schedule is just chaotic. It’s all over the place. A lot of people don’t have someone who’s doing all of the background work. And life just happens. Life happens. There is so much happening in the world right now.

13:31.52
Angelica
And I tell people this all the time from a consulting standpoint: people are feeling like they’re not as productive as they normally are. I’m like, “Have you turned on the news?” Life is just too much right now for anybody, anywhere on this planet.

13:40.88
Andréa Jones
Right?

13:45.70
Angelica
And if you just exist as a human being — just existing, doing the bare minimum and living through what we are — all these unexpected times, everything that we’re going through — you’re doing great. Because this is a lot. This is a lot. We have never, as a society of people, had access to each other 24/7 — knowing every single bad thing that’s happening in any part of this globe at any time. That is not how humans were supposed to be living. We were just not supposed to know this information. So imagine you’re scrolling, you’re taking all this information in, and you’re trying to run a business and be a parent, be a spouse, be a friend, be a sibling, be a child. You’re trying to be all of these things — a caretaker — on top of just existing, where every five seconds there’s a disaster, something bad happening in the world, and you’re absorbing all the information. It is a lot to take in.

14:38.42
Angelica
So I think the idea of having that fallback plan is so smart because we are just never going to be 150% all of the time — even if nothing bad was happening. That’s not how humans work.

14:49.28
Andréa Jones
Yeah. And I think honestly, this is just how we’re raised in our capitalistic society. And I’m not anti-capitalist. I’m just recognizing this is where we are. This is how we’re conditioned. You know, I grew up in Atlanta, Georgia, and it’s a very — let’s say, in the South — it’s a very Puritan environment.

15:08.25
Andréa Jones
And so it’s all like, you know, women — if you want to work, you can work — but you still have to take care of the whole house and the kids, right? And so I had that mentality going into it. Thankfully, my husband is very supportive — he’s like, “Chill, girl.” But I have to fight against that constantly because that’s how I was raised. So when I take all of that — all of my history — into my business, it’s like, “Oh, I have to do everything. I have to do it all, and I have to do it all perfectly.”

15:37.56
Andréa Jones
And that’s a lot of pressure. And so I’ve had to retrain myself over the years. I do a lot of meditation to really ground myself in the reality of — especially now — my current situation, which is: I just don’t have the time, mental space, or energetic capacity to post on social media every day. And that’s fine. I put in the work for years and years to be able to take this break now.

16:02.65
Angelica
Yep.

16:03.03
Charisma
Yeah, so true.

16:03.25
Angelica
And—

16:04.40
Charisma
Honestly, that’s really what matters — consistency overall. It doesn’t mean every single day. But it’s like you said — you’ve already put in so much work over so much time. People know your brand. They respect you. You know what I mean? You don’t have to show up every single day at this point in the game.

16:22.22
Andréa Jones
Yeah. And one of the other things I do that really helps with this is I post in the easiest way possible. Okay? So, I’m a talker — if y’all couldn’t tell — I like talking, and I like talking in a conversational way.

16:35.27
Andréa Jones
And now, some of my content is: my assistant will say, “Hey Andréa, what do you think about rage baiting?” And I’m like, “Oh, I have a ton of thoughts on this.” And that turns into a social media post.

16:47.17
Andréa Jones
Versus when I had more time, I would be the one sitting there scrolling and going, “Oh, this is a conversation I’m seeing. Let me think about how to join it.” And so a lot of times, it’s about posting in the easiest way possible.

16:56.20
Charisma
Mm-hmm.

16:59.41
Andréa Jones
Some of my clients are like, “I will never get on video in a million years.” And that’s why they’re in a slump — because they feel like they have to be, you know, dancing on TikTok. And I’m like, no. If you want to use text-based content, go to Threads, type your little thoughts — typos and all.

17:14.44
Andréa Jones
If you want to repost that to Instagram, go for it. Make it easy for yourself to create content in the way that feels natural to you. And there will be a lot less resistance when you do actually have to sit down and create something.

17:28.15
Angelica
I like that idea.

17:28.37
Charisma
That’s true.

17:29.50
Angelica
Yeah, that makes more sense.

17:30.59
Charisma
I love that.

17:32.70
Angelica
So you have all this experience with so many platforms — ones that, as you know, don’t even exist anymore. How should entrepreneurs adjust their expectations and measurement tactics across different social media channels to accurately gauge effectiveness?

17:46.98
Andréa Jones
Yeah, it’s tough, y’all. And again, in an ideal world, I have a strategy — and then I’ll talk to you about what it looks like realistically. Ideally, we’re using what I call an omnichannel strategy.

17:58.95
Andréa Jones
That means we are on multiple social media channels.

17:59.51
Angelica
Mm-hmm.

18:02.66
Andréa Jones
So, you know, there are the big ones — TikTok, Instagram. Facebook is still the largest platform, as many times as people say, “Oh, Facebook is sleepy.” No — it’s still the biggest platform. There’s a lot of activity over there.

18:15.79
Andréa Jones
Then there are the new platforms like Threads. So there’s a lot happening on social media. Ideally, we have an omnichannel strategy. But even with that strategy, I recommend giving each platform a hierarchy.

18:29.83
Andréa Jones
So, which platform is your primary, secondary, and tertiary? This will help you understand how to create content. Even big brands like Starbucks or Target — they all repurpose their content.

18:44.65
Andréa Jones
Very consistently — same posts to different platforms. So smaller brands, solo brands like us, we can apply the same strategy as well. But when you go to create that content, if you have a primary platform in mind, it helps you understand how to build around it. For example:

19:02.06
Andréa Jones
If you’re a video person like me and you like talking off the cuff, maybe you’re going to start with TikTok. Then you’re going to take those TikTok videos, turn them into YouTube Shorts, pin them on Pinterest, upload them to Facebook Reels, Instagram Reels — maybe even Threads, maybe even BlueSky.

19:17.42
Andréa Jones
You’re going to take that one video and repurpose it as much as possible. That is the ideal strategy. But when you’re in your winter season — when you have to rely on your non-ideal world plan — all those secondary and tertiary platforms don’t matter. Just focus on the one platform that matters.

19:41.31
Andréa Jones
You can repurpose later — or use a tool to do it for you. The one that I like to use for TikTok is repurpose.io. It’ll automatically take your TikTok videos and push them out everywhere.

19:52.39
Andréa Jones
Things like that can really help streamline everything when you’re trying to be everywhere. Now, the other thing to consider with this is: how do we know that it’s working?

20:04.10
Andréa Jones
How do we know which platform is the primary one? So there’s two questions I want you to ask. The first one is based on your preferences. I’m a huge fan of this because, again, we’re humans behind the social accounts. So if you find yourself using Facebook more than anywhere else, I’m going to say use Facebook.

20:21.14
Andréa Jones
So your preference does matter, but then also your community’s preferences matter as well. This one’s a little bit harder to decipher. So use your friend Google. I also have a cheat sheet that will help you decide on a platform.

20:37.61
Andréa Jones
But there are certain communities that do better on certain platforms. For example, if you are a journalist, platforms like X, Threads, and Blue Sky—you’ll probably get more traction than a platform like Instagram or Facebook.

20:54.83
Andréa Jones
If you are a sales consultant, LinkedIn is probably going to be a stronger platform for you than Threads. So there are certain platforms where communities also have preferences. Once you find the Venn diagram crossover of those two things, that’s how you can decide what are your primary platforms, what are secondary, and what are tertiary.

21:17.99
Charisma
I really hope that people just took notes because you just dropped gold right there. I love that. That was fantastic strategy. And again, I love that you are—because I think this is something that social media managers have said for a while—is to pay attention to what you actually like.

21:34.86
Charisma
But I think that some people have gotten away from that and they’ve been like, “No, TikTok is king,” or, “Instagram is king,” or whatever it is. I do think it’s important to actually enjoy the one that you’re spending the most time on.

21:48.82
Charisma
But I love that you’re giving people permission to say, “Hey, this one is first, this one is second, and this one is third.” Second and third are not always going to be top priority because you can’t always be everywhere all at once if you don’t have a team. You know what I mean? I think it’s so important to point out that there are people who have teams of quite a few people working around the clock to help them get those results and be seen in all places.

But for a lot of us, especially those of us who are approaching social media from a point of marketing our businesses—which I know is a lot of people listening right now—we just don’t have the time. Sometimes we’re the main person, or we might have a little bit of help on the side, but it’s not a whole team. So I love the way that you broke that down. I feel like that’s amazing.

22:37.07
Andréa Jones
Yeah. And I think that’s the thing, right? We’re comparing ourselves to someone who has an agency behind them. And I can say that with certainty because I used to run an agency. Your favorite online content creators have teams of people behind them, where it’s literally their job to make them seem like they’re everywhere.

22:55.13
Andréa Jones
And then there’s you trying to do the same thing. And it’s just not the same. It’s not the same thing. It’s like that quote, where it’s like, “Well, Beyoncé has the same number of hours in the day.”

23:05.18
Charisma
Yeah, I hate that.

23:05.37
Andréa Jones
And it’s like, well, Beyoncé has someone scrambling her eggs for her. Like, what?

23:09.76
Charisma
Right, right. We are not Beyoncé. It is not the same. And again, just money in general—there’s so many different types of privilege: having a family that cares, having a good partner, possibly not having children, being 100% physically healthy, being 100% mentally healthy. All these things can change how much you can show up for your business.

23:36.05
Charisma
And not compare yourself to the next person, because the way you show up is just going to be different, and that’s okay. That’s what makes you you, you know?

23:43.08
Andréa Jones
Exactly.

23:45.15
Charisma
So one thing that is definitely true about social media is that not every platform has the same sort of shelf life. And obviously, with working with algorithms and trying to be seen, there are some platforms where you’ve got to be seen really quick or else it feels kind of hopeless.

24:02.78
Charisma
So you’ve highlighted the enduring value of content on platforms like YouTube, where sometimes you can post and then two months later, six months later, that video might start getting traction—or just continue having traction the entire time.

24:15.92
Charisma
How can entrepreneurs incorporate such platforms into their strategy to achieve long-term results, and what metrics indicate sustained success?

24:24.28
Andréa Jones
Yes. Okay. So this is the difference between a search-focused platform and a social-focused platform. Search-first platforms are mainly YouTube and Pinterest.

24:37.83
Andréa Jones
And I’ll focus on YouTube because YouTube is the second-largest search engine in the world—after Google, who also happens to own YouTube.

24:49.05
Andréa Jones
So it is a pretty powerful platform. And you nailed it—the power is that people can search for the exact thing they’re looking for and find you. So if you, as a savvy, smart, entrepreneurial person, put yourself in those search results, then new people will find you fairly consistently.

25:08.04
Andréa Jones
Now, the downside of search-focused platforms is the timeline. It takes a while to build a community that way because you’re kind of unexpected. So even though someone’s searching for an answer to a solution, they don’t necessarily care yet who gives them that answer. They just want the answer.

25:27.89
Andréa Jones
So it takes a while to build a community that way. I definitely consider this a long-term strategy. Whereas with social-focused platforms like Facebook, LinkedIn, or Instagram, it is a little bit easier to build a community because the whole point of it is to be social.

25:48.04
Andréa Jones
It’s very natural on Instagram for someone to follow you, and then you go and look at their platform and you’re like, “Yeah, I’ll follow them back.” Now you’re seeing their posts, and you’re connected to them in a very social way.

25:58.57
Andréa Jones
So it’s a very different experience. But because of that, the way content is created is different as well. You create an Instagram post today, maybe it gets likes and comments two days later, but after that, it’s pretty much gone.

26:12.24
Andréa Jones
So it can be frustrating as a content creator to go through that experience as well. But once you understand the differences between the platforms, that can be very helpful.

26:24.89
Andréa Jones
Now, that’s a very black-and-white explanation. There’s a lot of gray area here. I consider TikTok to be a huge gray area. TikTok started off as a social platform, but recently switched to a search platform.

26:39.13
Andréa Jones
They even have ads now, like real TV ads, talking about how TikTok is all about search, which is just wild to me.

26:43.77
Charisma
Mm-hmm.

26:47.53
Andréa Jones
So you can go to TikTok now, and they’re going to try to get you to search for certain things. In the comment section, you’ll see videos categorized by certain keywords because they want people to find them in the search.

27:00.04
Andréa Jones
So TikTok is a huge gray area. You post a video today, and there’s an initial boost of engagement and activity. But based on what people are searching for, it could be months later and that video is still getting engagement. So TikTok is one of those middle-ground platforms.

27:18.10
Andréa Jones
It’s also very significant because there are other platforms that get a little jealous, aka Meta (Instagram, Facebook), and they want to be TikTok. They basically want to be TikTok. So now Instagram and Facebook are adapting some of those search-focused strategies into their algorithm. You may even notice that your reels, specifically Facebook reels and Instagram reels, are being seen weeks later.

27:48.18
Andréa Jones
That’s because they’re copying what TikTok’s algorithm is doing. So in the future, I do think there will be this search-social gray area crossover. But for now, we’re thinking about having both a short-term and a long-term strategy, which is why I always recommend aiming for that omni-channel presence.

28:11.87
Angelica
That’s so smart. The longevity of content really is key because Generation Alpha only searches for things on TikTok and YouTube. They don’t Google anything.

28:21.82
Andréa Jones
Mm-hmm.

28:23.95
Angelica
They don’t do it. I don’t know what it is about Google that they dislike, but the kids go straight for video formats. If they have cell phones, they have TikTok. If they have iPads, they have YouTube. They go to YouTube, and that’s how they find their answers. So there is some validity in that statement: just do something for the longevity of it all.

28:44.05
Angelica
And really, Meta will figure it out eventually, but the search still sucks.

28:49.52
Charisma
Yeah.

28:50.05
Angelica
But I don’t understand why it’s so bad. They’ve been in the game for so long. Their algorithm and search methods on both platforms, Instagram and Facebook— I don’t know about Threads because I don’t utilize it.

29:00.06
Andréa Jones
It’s terrible.

29:00.11
Angelica
It’s just…

29:01.49
Charisma
It’s the worst, actually.

29:02.84
Andréa Jones
It’s yes.

29:04.17
Charisma
Like, honestly, I want to love Threads so bad because I’m no longer on X (formerly Twitter) for all the reasons, but I really want to be on Threads. It’s where I’d prefer to show up, I’d prefer to just write, right? But it’s honestly… it’s the worst. I mean, every once in a while I’ll dabble, but I’m just like, it’s just the worst.

29:19.87
Andréa Jones
Mm-hmm.

29:27.86
Charisma
I just don’t know how they got it so wrong. I’m like, Twitter was right there. All you had to do was copy and paste.

29:32.77
Andréa Jones
Mm-hmm.

29:33.60
Charisma
Really good, but…

29:34.25
Angelica
No.

29:34.58
Charisma
And let’s be real, that’s what Meta does a lot—they look at what’s working with other places.

29:38.37
Andréa Jones
Oh.

29:39.68
Charisma
I mean, that’s kind of what made Instagram what it is today. They looked at a lot of other influences and said, “Cool, we’re going to incorporate that.” So, for better or for worse, whether you like or dislike that, that’s just one of the things they’re known for doing.

29:53.37
Charisma
But for whatever reason, when it comes to Threads, they’re like, “Yeah, everything we know about a platform that’s just text-based, we’re going to throw it out the window and not do any of it.” When they first launched, they were very much like, “Hey guys, we really wanted to get this off the ground. We know it’s super rough, but don’t worry. We’re going to be rolling stuff out, and we’ve got changes coming for it.” And it just hasn’t really happened.

30:17.03
Andréa Jones
No.

30:17.15
Charisma
I’m honestly really disappointed. I’m like, guys, what are we doing? And for you to tell us that it’s trash when it launched… they literally said, “Guys, it’s rough out here.”

30:24.01
Andréa Jones
Mm-hmm.

30:27.02
Charisma
We know, don’t be mad. We know it’s rough, but we got you. We see how bad it is. We’re going to make changes. And they just didn’t. So I don’t really know what’s going on over there. I want to love Threads.

30:38.07
Charisma
I will say I love the positivity. I love the vibes on Threads.

30:40.35
Andréa Jones
Heh.

30:41.59
Charisma
The vibes on Threads are elite. It’s very… everyone on my algorithm is fantastic. I want to get to know all of you, but it’s just not working. There are issues.

30:55.68
Charisma
I’m just…

30:55.88
Andréa Jones
Who?

30:59.14
Andréa Jones
Yeah, I love Threads too because of that, but you’re right. It’s like, you have the blueprint. Where is the functionality? I was literally searching for someone’s name the other day, and it didn’t show up.

31:10.47
Andréa Jones
What’s the point of a search box if you don’t give me someone’s name?

31:12.90
Charisma
Right.

31:14.28
Andréa Jones
Anyways, yeah.

31:15.06
Charisma
You can’t find anything. You better just hope it comes up in front of you. And if it does, you’re like, “Wow.” But again, most of the time, when it does, I’m excited, but it’s just not usable in the way Twitter was, which is unfortunate. I feel like it, especially with the knowledge we have now about how things go viral, the way memes spread, and how communities form…

31:39.95
Charisma
Threads really has the potential to be one of the absolute biggest platforms out there, but they’re dropping the ball.

31:47.79
Andréa Jones
Yeah. Yeah.

31:48.67
Angelica
Oh.

31:48.77
Andréa Jones
A hundred percent. We shall see what happens.

31:50.08
Angelica
Capitalism.

31:52.10
Andréa Jones
At least there are no ads.

31:53.59
Angelica
Yeah, fair… yet.

31:54.49
Charisma
There’s…

31:56.29
Andréa Jones
Yet.

31:56.72
Angelica
TBD. Speaking of ads coming soon—probably on Threads—social media is evolving so rapidly. The algorithms are genuinely moving at a mile a minute, a second. I feel like there are always algorithm changes on social media that we don’t even notice anymore. They just kind of throw out some betas, and then you realize your content no longer works.

32:22.61
Angelica
So what tools or methods do you recommend for entrepreneurs to continuously monitor and evaluate the performance of their strategies?

32:30.03
Andréa Jones
Yeah, this is the thing that nobody wants to do, which is… look at the numbers, look at the metrics, and keep track of them.

32:33.48
Angelica
No.

32:38.35
Andréa Jones
I can’t tell you how many times I’m talking to someone and they say, “I feel like my strategy isn’t working.” I ask, “Okay, so where did you start?” They say, “I think I started here, and now I’m here.”

32:47.37
Angelica
Nope.

32:48.10
Andréa Jones
And they always say followers. Always. They’re like, “Well, I had 320 followers last year, and now I have 350.” And I’m like, “Okay, first of all, anything else other than follower numbers, because that’s so not important right now. We talk about the algorithm, we talk about search.”

33:04.97
Andréa Jones
Follower numbers are honestly one of the least important metrics when you’re looking at success. It’s an indicator of success, don’t get me wrong. But we need to look at other things like impressions and reach.

33:16.78
Andréa Jones
We need to look at engagement—not just engagement as a number, but…

33:16.85
Angelica
Mm-hmm.

33:21.08
Andréa Jones
…within context, because there are bots out here leaving fake comments.

33:25.07
Charisma
Mm-hmm.

33:25.38
Andréa Jones
We don’t want to count “Oh, my post got three comments,” and two of them are like, “Buy Bitcoin today.” We’re not counting those. Okay?

33:43.32
Andréa Jones
So I do want us to look at those metrics. It also depends on your brand. I was working recently with someone who is a divorce coach. Her content is getting a lot of impressions and reach, but people aren’t commenting. She came to me and said, “I’m not getting comments on my stuff.” I said, “Literally, nobody is going to say, ‘Oh, yeah, I’m thinking about a divorce,’ on a public social channel, right?”

33:56.33
Angelica
Right. Mm-hmm.

33:58.89
Andréa Jones
For her brand, comments don’t even matter. Don’t even look at them. You’re never going to get engagement that way. But when we looked into her numbers, people were sharing her videos. They were probably texting it to their girlfriends or sharing it to their private stories, or whatever the case may be.

34:10.74
Angelica
Who.

34:16.65
Andréa Jones
So when we’re looking at our measures of success, because things have gotten complicated, we need to add complexity to it as well. Think about what the important metrics are for your business and how you can consistently track success.

34:38.32
Andréa Jones
Now, I’m an Airtable person, so I put everything in Airtable. But I also understand Airtable is a preference. Some people I work with just take screenshots every month. Some people handwrite it in a notebook. Whatever it is, you have to keep track of it because social media is literally designed to make you feel like you’re not doing enough, so you’ll keep doing more of it.

34:57.82
Angelica
Mm-hmm.

34:58.25
Andréa Jones
Instagram will literally send you fake notifications so you log into the app, and then you’re suddenly scrolling again so they can serve you more ads. You have to be mindful of what actually matters to you—not the platform, but to you, the business owner—and then actually keep track of it. I think you’ll be surprised, or at the very least, you’ll be more informed month over month about how much progress you’re actually making.

35:24.61
Andréa Jones
A lot of this isn’t on the social apps at all. For me, for example, I look at things like podcasts, listeners, email subscribers, and people joining my membership.

35:36.55
Andréa Jones
That doesn’t have anything to do with social media. Social media informs all of those things and feeds all of those things. But for me, if I’m not growing my email list, I know I’m not getting new people in so that I can get new people into my membership.

35:49.14
Andréa Jones
That’s just the way that it is.

35:49.38
Angelica
Mm-hmm.

35:50.72
Andréa Jones
And so for me, I’m like, I don’t care how many people liked an Instagram post. Did they actually do anything with this? Did this serve me a purpose in moving my business forward? If yes, great. If not, then it’s time to go back to the drawing board. And so I think it is being a little more elegant in the way that we view metrics, but also making sure we have a concrete way of actually seeing if it’s working or not.

36:14.86
Angelica
Yeah, I think, one, what you said is very key—that your metrics are on your platform. So social media is the catalyst to get people to your platforms. And those are where you are defining success for you, which I think more business owners need to do, especially if you have…

36:34.86
Angelica
Especially if you have a product-based business, number one, but if you’re a service-based business, for some reason, our service-based pals are obsessed with the idea of numbers on social media and how that…

36:36.77
Andréa Jones
Mm-hmm.

36:45.59
Angelica
…gives them the validity of just being reputable. And I’m sorry, just because you have 2 million followers, to me, doesn’t mean that you know what you’re talking about.

36:57.45
Angelica
What matters to me is what the content is like when I subscribe to your email.

36:57.54
Andréa Jones
A hundred percent.

37:01.70
Angelica
And it’s so frustrating to follow someone on social media who does have a lot of followers, and then you subscribe to their email and the emails are like, “What are you talking about?” I think you have to pivot from this idea of being successful on platforms because when those platforms don’t exist…

37:16.53
Angelica
…like the TikTok ban that lasted for 12 and a half hours, panic ensued, people were melting down, and they were losing their minds. But if you had your email list, your email list is good.

37:27.76
Angelica
You can still email those people whenever you want. You still have their emails, still have the information, and you can have your little side place wherever you put those people—whether it be on your website, on a separate platform—but you have the ability to still reach out to those people and say, “Hey, TikTok is gone. I’m sorry, we’ll be posting videos there, but guess what? I’m still sending the videos to you. I still have them on Instagram. I still have them on YouTube. I still have XYZ.”

37:50.90
Angelica
So I do think more people need to step away from, like you said, the follower count of it all because it may not always fit you. And I do love that you have that example of the divorce coach because that is very accurate.

38:02.13
Angelica
Not one person is commenting, being like, “Girl, you’re so right.”

38:03.98
Andréa Jones
Right?

38:06.40
Angelica
“Can’t wait to leave my man tomorrow.”

38:07.83
Andréa Jones
My…

38:07.80
Angelica
Like that’s not happening. So we really do have to be smarter about how we view success in our businesses.

38:15.37
Andréa Jones
Yeah, 100%. And I love what you said about finding someone on social media, signing up for their email list, and then being disappointed by it. Because you know, this whole marketing plan should work together like an ecosystem.

38:28.74
Angelica
Okay.

38:29.64
Andréa Jones
And when all the pieces are disjointed, it leaves for a very poor customer experience. And now people are questioning what it’s like to buy from you, too. And so it kind of all has to flow together. It doesn’t have to flow in that exact way, but it does have to be a really elegant experience. And I think that’s one of the biggest shifts between, you know, Instagram of 2015 versus Instagram 2025. Instagram back then…

38:50.38
Angelica
Right.

38:50.91
Andréa Jones
…is that people were doing this all the time. They’d be like, “I’m starting a t-shirt brand.” And then they’re selling out their t-shirts on Instagram. You can’t do that today. It’s just not possible. That’s just the reality of Instagram today.

39:05.86
Andréa Jones
And so once you accept that that’s the reality, you take the elegant approach and you go, “Okay, my Instagram is to get people to my email list or whatever it is. And then my email list is where I nurture and sell to my clients and customers.”

39:18.07
Andréa Jones
Yeah, yeah, it just takes a little bit more thought. But you know, I think that’s just where we are, and I kind of like it, to be honest.

39:24.36
Angelica
I love “take the elegant approach.” If that’s not merch that you have already, you please make it, friend. Make merch, right?

39:27.42
Charisma
Yes. Super elegant approach.

39:28.66
Andréa Jones
Oh, writing it down.

39:30.93
Charisma
Yes.

39:32.53
Angelica
Please do because that is genuinely such a good mindset to have about approaching your business because I think you just get so overwhelmed. And there is, like you said, there’s so much masculine energy in marketing. And so, back in the day, all podcasts were like red logos and like, “Go, go, go, and you’re going to have the best business ever,” and this is da, da, da. And it’s like fire. I think every podcast had fire in the name, like “Startup Fire,” “Fire, Fire, Fire,” you know?

40:00.09
Charisma
Fire’s starting out.

40:00.26
Angelica
Marketing fire. It’s like, okay, I don’t want to be on fire, actually.

40:01.53
Charisma
Yeah.

40:03.45
Angelica
I want to sip my tea, make some money, have a good time with my kid, and hang out with my friends on the weekend. I like that elegant approach. That is fantastic.

40:12.51
Andréa Jones
Mm-hmm.

40:14.03
Angelica
Figure it out, copyright it, and remember us. Send us a hat or a mug or something when you do that.

40:19.21
Andréa Jones
I will.

40:21.17
Charisma
Yeah. And I think it’s 100% true that follower count has never been an indicator of how successful someone is because I can’t tell you how many people I’ve known who had really high follower counts but were just not able to convert, whether it be sales, products, or whatever it is. So I do think it’s like what you’ve been talking about from the beginning—your messaging and that sort of thing is so incredibly important.

40:47.13
Charisma
And again, it’s always been a thing where we’ve said, like, make sure you have a website, make sure you have an email list. You have to have things to fall back on because at the end of the day, social media is rapidly changing.

40:59.60
Charisma
There are so many… I mean, who remembers the Peach app? Do you guys remember that? It was here for like five minutes.

41:05.12
Andréa Jones
No.

41:06.50
Charisma
There are so many apps that come in and out of our lives. I know right now there are people who are dedicating a lot of time to Lemon8. Then there are other people who are like… right.

41:13.97
Angelica
I was going to say, I would literally want to say eliminate.

41:15.05
Andréa Jones
Yeah. Yup.

41:17.81
Charisma
There are so many different things that come in and out. And like, I always sign up for each thing and I’m like, we’ll see where it goes. But a lot of them are here and then gone.

41:28.51
Charisma
Vine. I mean, the death of Vine was a massive one.

41:29.74
Andréa Jones
Mm-hmm.

41:31.78
Charisma
So yeah, things are always changing. And I think the Facebook that I built my business on is unrecognizable today. It’s not at all the Facebook we’re on today.

41:41.96
Andréa Jones
Yeah.

41:44.02
Charisma
Same thing for Instagram, YouTube, and everything else. So I think it’s just so important to have that website, have that email list. I would say now more than ever, but definitely, if you’re a business, this is important to have because you just never know if something is going to go down or completely change to the point where, like you said, you can’t start a t-shirt business and just rely on Instagram to get you that customer count.

42:11.52
Andréa Jones
Yeah, things are changing. I honestly think there’s going to be another social platform by 2026 that’s going to explode. I’m ready for it. As a marketer, I’m like, bring it on.

42:21.43
Charisma
Yes. Yeah.

42:22.01
Andréa Jones
But I also know that as a business owner, it feels like just one more thing we have to do.

42:27.66
Angelica
Mm-hmm.

42:28.11
Andréa Jones
So my advice is always this: Find someone you trust and learn from them. And it has to be someone who lives a similar lifestyle. I am a firm believer in that.

42:38.81
Andréa Jones
Coming from a life when I ran my business with no kids, which was most of my business, it was totally different than having two young kids. So for me, the mentors I look to now… it’s not that they have to have kids, but they kind of have to understand where I’m coming from because their advice is totally different than someone who does not have the same capacity that I have. So if you’re wondering, sitting here, scratching your head, looking at a new platform, like, should I do this? Go talk to the mentors who make it their job to study this and take their advice. You don’t have to figure it out, but look around for the advice of those you trust.

43:14.54
Charisma
Yes, I love it. So, I mean, you just talked about how you think we’ll see another huge platform maybe by 2026. And again, we know social media is just constantly changing. So looking ahead, how do you think the way we measure social media success will change in the next three to five years?

43:31.66
Charisma
And what should entrepreneurs start paying attention to now to prepare for that?

43:32.04
Andréa Jones
Yeah.

43:36.48
Andréa Jones
Pay attention to AI.

43:38.42
Charisma
Hmm.

43:38.42
Andréa Jones
I know it’s the hairy, scary villain in the room for a lot of us. I know from my perspective, I know so many marketing agencies who had to close their doors, especially my copywriters, as a direct result of something like ChatGPT because businesses are looking at it as a cost-saving.

43:52.16
Andréa Jones
So looking at the social media side of things, I think it’s irresponsible to ignore AI. This is our opportunity to learn it. I’m not saying you have to use it, but you have to understand it because it’s going to dominate over the next three to five years.

43:58.90
Angelica
Mm-hmm.

43:59.54
Andréa Jones
The platforms are embedding it into their work. You can’t Google something without the AI result being at the top. You can’t look at a meta comment on Facebook without having a summary of the sentiment of the comment section. So it’s going to be embedded in day-to-day life. Now, how that will affect social media specifically is, I think there’s going to be a premium on actual real human beings.

44:39.89
Andréa Jones
So what that looks like, I don’t know yet. But I know for me, I don’t mind an AI chatbot if I need an answer for something. But honestly, sometimes I’m like, can I just talk to someone, please?

44:52.36
Charisma
Yeah, well, like when you call and press zero over and over and you’re like, “Give me the representative,” that’s me.

44:52.63
Andréa Jones
Yeah.

44:57.87
Andréa Jones
But yes. So I think that’s going to show up in social media. We’re at the other side of the pendulum swing now where everyone’s like AI-crazed, and I’m there too. Like I’m really loving exploring it.

45:09.63
Andréa Jones
But I think over the next three to five years, we’re going to find that middle ground between AI everything and the need for some human touches. As a business, yes, automate some things, but also figure out how you can be human in a way that other businesses can’t or won’t be.

45:28.26
Andréa Jones
For example, when someone follows me on Instagram or LinkedIn and sends a message, I try to send a voice message back if I can.

45:34.99
Charisma
Right.

45:37.63
Andréa Jones
Because that’s not AI, that’s me. It’s not my assistant responding to a comment, it’s me. As much as I can, I try to do things like that, where it’s clear that a human is behind this, even though my assistant organizes my entire life, and I can’t live without her.

45:52.81
Andréa Jones
Also, that’s so I can show up and be fully present in moments like this. So what that looks like on social media, I don’t know. Maybe we’ll have a bunch of AI influencers, and then the real ones will gather together and make our own communities. I have no idea.

46:10.83
Andréa Jones
But I do think if we study AI, and also find ways to be completely and wholly human, that will help prepare us for the changes to come in the next five years.

46:23.36
Charisma
I think you’ve nailed it with the human experience because I think a lot of times when we’re reaching out to a business with a question, it’s usually something a little more nuanced and complex. That’s why I’m reaching out to you for it. If not, I’d just go to Google, right? Because I grew up in the Google age. I’ll just go to Google and figure it out, or watch a YouTube video. But if I’m reaching out to a company, it’s because I need that human touch.

46:53.50
Charisma
I need to be guided through whatever that pain point is. So I do think it’s important to have that. And then I also think about how I’ve streamlined and cut back on who I follow and what I want to see in my feed when it comes to influencers, creators, and other business owners.

47:17.23
Charisma
For me, it’s people with very specific personalities. It’s not about following people whose profile you look at and think, “I don’t fully know who this person is.” I’m following people like Lovey, whose personality is clear.

47:31.87
Andréa Jones
Who?

47:33.89
Charisma
And you’re like, “Oh, I know exactly who this is,” just by being on their page for five minutes. So I really gravitate toward people with strong personalities. Again, it doesn’t mean you have to be loud, but it’s clear who the person is. I think people with strong personalities will do very well because we’ll be looking for that. When a lot of things are AI, like, I can really tell. We use ChatGPT for certain things here on the show, and I use it in my business, but when it comes to AI and other things, I can tell when it’s artificial. When it’s art, for example, it just feels flat and boring, and people have eight fingers, and I’m like…

48:16.83
Andréa Jones
Bye.

48:17.42
Charisma
That’s obviously AI, you know what I mean? Like, I can tell the difference. And I think, because I’ve been lucky enough to work with artists—back when I was a photographer, the photographer who was my second shooter was a trained artist before she became a photographer—and I’ve worked with Angelica, who’s an amazing artist, so I’ve learned so much about art. I don’t think I’m the best at creating visual art, but I can certainly recognize it. And to me, when I see AI, I’m like, “Well, this is crap.”

48:49.71
Charisma
But when it comes to replicating writing and things like that, it’s gotten quite good. So it’ll be interesting to see how that plays out over the next three to five years.

49:03.36
Charisma
Also, on the same note of robots taking over, I know we were all concerned about the robot dogs from that episode of Black Mirror. Then they had them in LA, and everyone was like, “We don’t want these in LA,” with protests everywhere. People across America were supporting the protests, saying, “Yeah, we don’t want these robots.”

49:29.00
Charisma
Well, now they’re at Epic Universe, and they’ve dressed them up like baby dragons, and people are like, “We love you! You’re so cute! I want to cuddle you.” I noticed the technology immediately because I follow a few local influencers who got to go to the sneak peek at Epic Universe.

49:37.70
Andréa Jones
Oh no. So…

49:44.88
Charisma
I noticed the movement and was like, “That’s the same machine. That’s the same thing.”

49:52.00
Andréa Jones
Whoa.

49:52.74
Charisma
So it’s interesting how, if we, and I’m not going to lie, is it cute? It is. My husband and I were looking at it, and we were like, “That’s adorable.” So, I always use Baymax from Big Hero 6 as an example because people are like, “Oh no, I don’t want a robot in my house.” But if it looked like Baymax, you’d be like, “Oh, he’s so cute. Welcome in, Baymax.”

50:12.17
Charisma
It’s going to be very interesting to see how people make decisions regarding AI, robots, and everything else over the next year. I think we’ve seen a lot of growth, but I believe it’s about to explode into things we never imagined.

50:28.61
Andréa Jones
Yeah, I’m ready for it, but I’m also scared. We’ve all seen the movies where the robots take over.

50:31.64
Charisma
Same, same. That’s exactly how I feel. I try to stay informed, and anyone who listens to this and then sees my Instagram in a few months will be like, “Okay, but why are you next to the dragon?” Listen, I never said I wasn’t going to see it, okay? It’s adorable.

50:47.76
Charisma
But I’m just saying, I’m aware that this is the thing people were afraid of. So, that’s the thing, right? A lot of people have said, “Hey, we can use AI and robots, but let’s use them in a more ethical or better way.” We should be using technology to make our lives easier, not to create art. Why are we using AI to create art when we could use it to, I don’t know, clean our house or something? Use it for tasks we don’t want to do.

51:16.04
Charisma
It’s very interesting to see how we’ll be picking and choosing how to use it. You live in Canada, so it’s a lot better over there.

51:23.90
Andréa Jones
Huh.

51:24.11
Charisma
Here in the United States, I’m concerned about what we’re going to be doing, but I’m sure the rest of the world will make better decisions than we do.

51:31.70
Andréa Jones
Yeah, we do tend to be a little more, um… I don’t know if “liberal” is the right word in Canada, but having lived in both countries—I’m originally from the US—I get to see both sides. And I’m happy I live in Canada now.

51:43.97
Charisma
At this point, I think “sane” would be the right word. I don’t think it’s about being liberal or non-liberal. I think the rest of the world tends to make more sane decisions than the United States does, especially when it comes to AI. If anyone’s going to make bad decisions, it’ll be the people in charge here. So, hopefully, the rest of the world will respectfully keep us in check, and we continue to try to keep our government in check, because that’s where I get worried. But when it comes to the single mom entrepreneur who’s like, “Hey, I’m going to use this to help me with my newsletter,” that’s where I think AI can be a great tool.

52:18.46
Charisma
You know, help write my newsletter so I can get it out to customers and maybe get some sales. That’s where I’m like, “Oh, I like this. This is a good use.” We use it on the podcast to transcribe episodes because we’re doing most of the work ourselves. We produce almost everything and touch everything, so it’s a lot for two people. Plus, we have other businesses going on, but we also want to make sure that someone who can’t listen can still access the content. We want to be as accessible and inclusive as possible.

52:50.25
Charisma
So using AI for that is a great way to ensure we’re being more accessible.

52:50.33
Andréa Jones
Yeah.

52:55.07
Charisma
There are so many positive ways to use AI. It’s better to have the conversation about it and say, “Here’s a positive way to use it,” rather than letting it run amok because people are going to use it regardless.

53:09.28
Charisma
That’s where we’re at.

53:09.46
Andréa Jones
Exactly.

53:10.35
Charisma
Mm-hmm.

53:10.85
Andréa Jones
Yeah.

53:11.40
Charisma
Yeah. I loved talking today. I feel like I learned so much. I’m so excited. It’s so awesome to see how far your business has come over the years. It’s always really special when we get to talk to someone we spoke with eight years ago, which is amazing.

53:24.10
Andréa Jones
Mm-hmm.

53:25.97
Charisma
Let our listeners know what you’re up to, where they can find you, any special projects you have coming up, and tell them about your podcast so they can listen to that as well.

53:36.20
Andréa Jones
Yeah. Well, if you love listening to podcasts, come on over to the Mindful Marketing Podcast. We release episodes every Tuesday. A big project for me for the rest of this year is AI. I’ve just created a new mini podcast series all about how I use AI every single day.

53:53.11
Andréa Jones
You can find that at online.com/ai. Short, less than 10-minute episodes where you can learn new ways to use AI thoughtfully in your business.

54:03.85
Andréa Jones
So check that out. Otherwise, I’m on Lendrea everywhere online. I’m the one exception—I’m everywhere, literally on every platform. So come find me and say hi.

54:13.27
Charisma
Absolutely love it. Thank you so much.

54:15.80
Andréa Jones
Thank you.